This is very first post so I apolgiize for the length. I want to provide some back ground

I got Benedict last June as an 8 week old pup from the same breeder as my beloved Eli who passed at age 9. I have had GSD’s off an on since childhood. I took them to classes, and with Eli, read Monks of New Skete books. Until Benedict I never participated in forums and heard about “positive training”

Now with Benedict I have internet and great forums, and read lots of things. I just found the Leerburg articles yesterday
All the reading I have done makes me feel like I know less then I used to! On the advice of these experts I now have a Gentle Leader, Martingale, Easy Walk/ Sense sation / Prong, Flat Buckle. I wear a clicker like a bracelet!

In the Clicker training class I was told to never ever use a prong and the only correction needed was to ignore bad behavior. They really wanted me to use the Gentle Leader but Benny hated it. I got him to bring it to me for a treat but he spent so much time rubbing his face to get it off that he could not focus on me and was miserable so the instructor said I could use the Easy Walk or Sense ation. Benny does not mind them, but I am beginning to use the prong (fitted correctly) on walks for safety because I only weigh 15 pounds more then Benny.

Before reading all this great but conflicting material I just gave my dogs the level of correction needed to get them to do what I wanted, once I was sure they understood. It was the same with my kids. One son needed to be verbally hit with a bat to know I was talking to him, but with the other son, all it took was a “look”. Treating the sensitive one like the first would have been abuse and treating the hard headed one like the second would have been useless. Most of the trainers in the Clicker Class and the dogs don’t seem to be as hard headed as Benny.

Right now Benny is an almost 11 month old 85 pound adolescent He was very socialized from the day I got him. I was able to bring him to work where he was around children and to an Assisted Living Facility where mo Mother lives and he got used to walkers , canes, wheelchairs etc. He knows all the basic commands and a few tricks. He is crate trained. I make him sit and wait before releasing him to get his food, or go out a door, lay down before I throw his toy etc . He never tries to get on the couch. He is allowed on the bed for a few minutes, morning and night, but gets off when told and sleeps on the floor next to me.

He obeys perfectly in the house and yard without leash, but blows me off when distracted. I am worried about his lunging at dogs that run by us with jogging owners, aggressive dogs, cats, and he has been exploding at skate boarders. When something gets him amped up it’s like I am not there. I even bought a skate board to get him used to them and Benny ended up to trying ride it and made a hole in the wall. He does play wonderfully with frendly dogs and has never fought.

The class we begin in three weeks to prepare for the CGC does not allow the prong, but will allow the Sense-ation. Benny is great in class because the dogs are not aggressive, don’t jog by us and no one skate boards.

Yesterday I spent a lot of time reading the Leerburg articles and it sounds like I have really failed and that Benny does not see me as a leader. He loves me, but does not respect me so I need to really get tougher with him. The Leerburg dominant dog article recommends using their dominant dog collar, but I can’t see myself hanging Benny for not obeying. Everything in me recoiled. I can give stronger prong corrections but what else do I need to do?

I had a private evaluation with a behaviorist and she said Benny’s explosion are not fear based, but male posturing. She said the prong would amp him up more. She recommended keeping him understand under threshold and I do this, but sometimes things just come up on us and this is not possible. There seems to be more and more things getting Benny amped up. I use the prong to keep us both out of trouble. Benny playfully lunged ( no barking growling) to chase after two men who jogged past us a few weeks ago and they threatened us with a stun gun.

Benny is a great dog and I know he is challenging me and part of it may be because he is an intact, almost 11 month male, but I want him, for his own safety to know he must obey me, no matter what. How do I accomplish this?

Hi, Debbie, and welcome,

"He obeys perfectly in the house and yard without leash, but blows me off when distracted. I am worried about his lunging at dogs that run by us with jogging owners, aggressive dogs, cats, and he has been exploding at skate boarders."

Does this mean that he's off-leash outside under distraction?

That would be the first thing I'd change, if so.



"There seems to be more and more things getting Benny amped up."

How much exercise and training does he get every day? Can you describe it?



Are you doing any focus work, and do you know anything about the kind of desensitizing that involves working with the dog outside his reactive zone?

More details will help get you some concrete advice.

Hi!
Welcome to the forum!

I understand your reaction to "hanging" the dog.
I had the same reaction.
This stemmed from a total lack of knowledge and understanding of what was happening and a lack of understanding of dog thought processes.

Lets see if I can explain....
You are right that a prong correction will increase the drive in your dog...amp him up more.
Using the dominant dog collar will take drive ...energy away. In a low low key way.
First, you especially cant even begin to hurt your dog. you just don't have the mass to....so Don't worry about that.
The way it works is that it takes the air, and if you do it right slows the blood flow to the brain down.
With a dog that is in high drive, all of the sudden they have much much more important things to worry about than what ever it was that had them amped.
If you repeat this enough, then all you have to do is a upward tug on the leash, and they redirect their focus.
A dog just can't learn with its brain in an aroused state like you are describing....this is why he acts as if you there...you aren't to him.....thus anything you say is not reality to him. you must get the brain in a calm submissive state before you try to teach him anything.
The first step is to teach him that he cant get into an aroused state unless you let him.
It sounds harsh, but its not. Its much kinder than yoking him with a choke chain or locking him up for the rest of his life.. Dogs live in the moment, and taking his air away till his tantrum is over is much kinder than even an alpha wolf taking a lower ranking one down on TV.
Its much kinder than putting him down, where many of these cases end up.
Your dog is going through normal adolescence, and needs rules boundaries and limitations.
I would get Ed's Dvd on the pack structure, the dominant dog vid and the obedience one.
With those, you don't need a prep class for the CGS test.
You can spend that money on good teaching material and end up with better results.
Great job coming here...you will find that this method does work......trust me!!!!

 Quote: connie sutherland

Thanks for the quick response. Let me answer the questions in blue.
Does this mean that he's off-leash outside under distraction?
Let me answer the questions

He is never off leash out of the yard or house, excpet in a fenced in school yard where I have permission to train. He does once a week play with other dogs in this school yard. These dogs are owned by friends. It is not a dog park. I have been work on his recall while playing with the other dogs and he has been coming every time. I then treat him with a high value treat and release him to play


"There seems to be more and more things getting Benny amped up."

How much exercise and training does he get every day? Can you describe it?

On the 4 days I work 11 hours Benny gets an hour walk in the morning and an hour play/ training in the evening. The rest of the day he is let in and out of crate for potty breaks and play periods with my sons 11 month pit pup . On my three days off Benny gets an hour walk in the morning and a half hour in the afternoon. We have two or three training session in the park and house, interspersed with playing fetch and tug.


Are you doing any focus work, and do you know anything about the kind of desensitizing that involves working with the dog outside his reactive zone?

Yes, We play a version of the Look at that Game. There is a fenced dog that Benny really erupts too. I bring him as close as I can before he reacts. I let him look and just before he reacts which I can tell because he clenched his mouth and leans forward I click and throw treats on the ground to distract and reset him. Each day he can get a little closer and look a but longer. It is situations that I can't predict that he goes over threshold in a blink of an eye.

More details will help get you some concrete advice.

L

Thanks Willie. I will order the collar and see if I can bring myself to use it. I watched the video on sizing and Benny seems to need an 18. Ed's Mal sure did not seem to mind it in the video.

Here are some a picture of my boy

On his bed which he is sharing with my sons pup and after a play time in the park.


http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c148/shepherdpal/IMG_0195.jpg


http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c148/shepherdpal/IMG_0259-2.jpg

Hi Debbie and welcome to the forum! You pup is beautiful! I just want to assure you that you are in excellent hands and the advice you are getting, and will continue to receive will absolutley help you get a handle on things. The one thing you can count on on this forum is that no one here is going to advise ANYTHING which could harm your dog or your relationship with him.

 Quote:

Yes, We play a version of the Look at that Game. There is a fenced dog that Benny really erupts too. I bring him as close as I can before he reacts. I let him look and just before he reacts which I can tell because he clenched his mouth and leans forward I click and throw treats on the ground to distract and reset him. Each day he can get a little closer and look a but longer. It is situations that I can't predict that he goes over threshold in a blink of an eye.

The only problem with this is that he is still going over threshold. Under threshold does not mean bringing him right up to the breaking point, it means working him under it. The clenched mouth is over threshold. I think you might be inadvertently rewarding him for the behavior you don't want.

Instead I would reward and turn away the second he acknowledged the other dog. Actually, since it's already an issue, I'd take him in the vicinity, do some light obedience work, turn around and leave without even coming close to the other dog at first. Teach him to realize he doesn't even have to deal with the other dog.

Also "Look at That" (I'm assuming this idea came from Control Unleashed) doesn't have the dog look longer and longer at the stimuli, rather it rewards for a glance and moves on. Basically it shows him that it is no big deal and we can move on with life. When you have him look at the other dog longer and longer it is putting pressure on him to do something (staring is a dominant behavior) and it leads to him reacting.

"I wear a clicker like a bracelet!"


I used too... now it's attached to my belt, I find it gets in the way less

Welcome to the forum, you'll get some really good advice here. I don't know where i would be without it.

Thanks for the detailed answers, and good for you being open minded trying to help your dog.
It seems that that is enough exercise, however I have an important question.
When you walk, is the dog out in front of you, or beside/behind you?
If he is out in front, that is the leadership position, and since you are letting him out front, in his mind you must not be the leader...thus, in his mind you are not qualified to make decisions about the pack safety..including but not limited to who he fights. Therefore it is just safer to treat all unknowns as threats. A good offense is the best defense...= instant red zone.

He needs to be in a calm submissive state of mind on your walks beside or behind you. Then he will be in a mental place where he can hear you.
He will also start to trust you to make the decisions in the pack. Right now you are not behaving in such a way that he feels that you are his leader and can keep you both safe. He has stepped up to the plate and is trying to lead the pack.
He is beautiful, and certainly bears himself in a dominant posture.
Even if you are walking with him beside you, from the problems you are having, it shows that he doesn't regard you as his leader.
I can't recommend the videos enough.
I have come to the point in my training that if a client won't order Ed's videos then I wont work with them.
If they won't buy the video and commit to work through the program, that shows a lack of commitment that I don't want to deal with. They have me for the hour they paid for. They can go home and watch Ed over and over.
I would get the pack leader one, the dominant aggressive dog one and the obedience one.
I wold use the money you were going to spend on the prep class for the CGC test.
If they don't let prong collars in that class, they WILL NOT be able to help you with this dog.
You finish those three vids, and you can go take the test with out any problems.
If you want, you can PM me and I will give you my phone # and help you on the phone.
Good luck!!
Willie