Dogs and Coyotes....is this normal behavior?
#268388 - 03/08/2010 11:00 PM |
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First things first. I AM NOT LETTING MY DOG PLAY WITH A COYOTE...just need to make the clear...nooooo way is that happening...but I'm curious about some odd canine behavior
My complex is part of the territory of a small coyote pack, from what I've managed to count there's a dominant male, his mate, and two younger but adult individuals one of which I'm sure is the son of the mated pair. There's another pack a few miles south of us as well a friend of mine tracks and sometimes they wander up here too. They're actually very good wild neighbors who do not hunt livestock, the most they do is snatch cats but everyone knows that so their aren't any outdoor cats in this complex. Ryuk and I used to see the pack all the time during out night walks and Ryuk would generally initially react with some excitement but as he got better on a leash he generally reacted as he would any other dog.
However back home it's a different story. The dominant male hangs out in the field in front of out apartment chasing rabbits at night. When I let Ryuk out at night and he's out there it's instant excitement from both of them. Ryuk play bows and wags his tail, so does the coyote (well, his "wag" kinda funny, sort of flops around...but he's clearly calling to play, he'll yip and everything). On his long leash Ryuk will run around and call to play. The coyote will come pretty close to us (I usually bring Ryuk inside if he gets too close) and will run around yipping and wagging. If I let them I have no doubt that the coyote would actually come right up to my dog. I've seen the coyotes playing together...it's the same body language.
Also, when we're inside the dominant male and son will hang out under our window (especially if it's open) and will "talk" to Ryuk who responds with yips and tail wagging. They caught a bunny behind the complex last night under our window and even the female got into the action yipping up at our window with the others. He'll howl with them too if let him (which isn't often since it's at night he wants to do this)
How universal is canine behavior....Why of all dogs do these coyotes like my pup? They certainly don't like the other dogs around here and there have been no coyotes serenading outside anyone else's window. They don't really bug me (though I wish they weren't afraid of my camera flash since I'd LOVE to get some photos...I've got a lot of coyote tail and butt pictures, I'd like some faces) but I am curious. What is my dog doing to attract these guys? Should I stop it?
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Re: Dogs and Coyotes....is this normal behavior?
[Re: Jamie Craig ]
#268391 - 03/08/2010 11:18 PM |
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I have heard stories told of urban coyotes who act very playful and doglike to lure unsuspecting dogs out to kill them. Personally I would discourage this interaction, and if it were coyotes in my yard they would be very short lived.
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Re: Dogs and Coyotes....is this normal behavior?
[Re: Melissa Thom ]
#268392 - 03/08/2010 11:34 PM |
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unfortunately there is little I can do about them as they do not go after livestock, leave people alone, and don't do damage to the property or the residents. They have a healthy fear of dogs if challenged. These are the only coyotes Ryuk responds to in a positive way, the other local pack is barked at aggressively. If one of the other coyotes wanders into this territory both the dominant male will react as will Ryuk if they're both outside.
I thought that the luring dogs thing was an urban legend (eating dogs isn't...anklebiters make great little snacks I'm sure)...no matter what they'll never be meeting though, no way...these aren't starving coyotes, they're very very well fed (dumpsters and plentiful slow wildlife and roadkill) even in the dead of winter these guys can be seen happily chasing rabbits in the snow and they're always quite well fed.
I know hungry coyotes get desperate and it's not uncommon to distract a guard animal to get at the livestock, I've also seem some great deer hunting technics by the large "winter" packs that form when food is scarce (push the deer on the ice so it can't stand). We have a professor who studies coyotes and he was telling us how the whole "luring a dog to death" this is extremely unlikely and a pack would have have a livestock killing history and would need to be positively starving to even consider going after a predator over a prey animal (small dogs are not considered predators in this case...but a 50lb dog would)
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Re: Dogs and Coyotes....is this normal behavior?
[Re: Jamie Craig ]
#268393 - 03/08/2010 11:58 PM |
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Hi Jamie,
it is a well-known fact that dogs and coyotes could and do mate. Maybe they just like him Could some of that luring away and killing actually be attraction gone wrong, Romeo and Juliet style?
To qualify: I have only seen a coyote (I think it was a coyote) once in my life, not an expert.
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Re: Dogs and Coyotes....is this normal behavior?
[Re: Ana Kozlowsky ]
#268394 - 03/09/2010 12:15 AM |
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LOL Ana
I'd be a little more convinced if it wasn't the male coyote seducing my fixed male dog XD. Then again...my pup did seem to enjoy it when I dressed him up as a pink fairy princess last halloween....
Where the heck are you where you have no coyotes? Are you not in the USA? I can't think of a coyote free area in the USA...I mean in the heart of boston I was dumpster diving and rounded a corner to find a good sized pack turning over a dumpster....
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Re: Dogs and Coyotes....is this normal behavior?
[Re: Jamie Craig ]
#268400 - 03/09/2010 01:26 AM |
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Just got back inside. Everybody's really active tonight, it must be the warmer weather. This time Ryuk had a different reaction however...
The "other" coyotes were out tonight. The young male pup from our pack was getting chased around. They took off to the other side of the complex and I took the chance to let Ryuk go pee. We got back to the door just as they looped back around and Ryuk went hackles up growling and barking at the "other" pack. The "other" pack is led by a very distinctively beat up individual (male I think, this one has really scruffy belly so it's not as visible). Looks like it got clipped by a car at some point and it runs funny. The ones who's territory we're on have certain features as well. The main male has a chip in his ear, his mate is small and always super cautious and shy (she pretty much crawls on her belly when she moves, tail down), the younger male has an insanely long set of legs on him compared to the others. The other one's tail is missing the hair on the top.
Ryuk freaked out on the other pack like I'd expect him to react to wildlife, all about putting on a show. The other pack fears humans so as soon as I make noise they scatter. This time Ryuk showed little reaction to our local long legged pup, they made eye contact for a moment, then Ryuk and pup both wagged tails and the coyote retreated calmy until I startled him. No aggression, but this time no active asking to play, just tail wagging from both of them before I scared him off. Ryuk made no attempt to chase him or play....he treated him like a dog he knows, not worth getting excited about. However this was the younger one, it was the older one who wanted to play the other nights...
I should start a coyote journal or something. When I first moved here I did do some observations on them for an assignment but now I've seen them enough to tell them apart....could be fun. Bird watching's for wimps...cool people watch coyotes >_>
aaaaaaand crap....they're out in the back fields again...I can here them yipping....
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Re: Dogs and Coyotes....is this normal behavior?
[Re: Jamie Craig ]
#268401 - 03/09/2010 01:31 AM |
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Didn't you mention that the whole pack was into him?
The last time I heard CA was part of the US (not according to Bill O'Reilly). Then again, coyotes (supposedly) mostly come out at night... mostly.
In the sig pic, is he looking out for his coyote friends?
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Re: Dogs and Coyotes....is this normal behavior?
[Re: Ana Kozlowsky ]
#268403 - 03/09/2010 02:10 AM |
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We have two packs, the one that's into him is the one who's territory is primarily this area, there are only four members, the other pack is a little larger and when the two cross paths there's a lot of chasing yipping and scuffling that happens.
Out of the pack that is interested in him it's the dominant male that makes the most effort, play bowing, darting, tail wagging, general "happy puppy" mannerisms. When they play outside the window they'll all "talk" to him through the window (which is well off the ground, I'm on the second story). It's the older male that holds most of focus though. The times when there is only one coyote at our window, it's him...he's got a really distinctive clip out of his ear. Tonight the other member of our local pack of four was running around in a scuffle with the invading pack. Those coyotes (only two) came near our building and Ryuk behaved aggressively as I'd expect to do with wildlife. He barked, he growled, he was generally in "I want to eat those things" mode until I told him to be quiet. My presence frightened those coyotes who took off. THe young male who lives around here wandered of more relaxed, Ryuk responded to him as he would a familiar dog, brief eye contact, tail wags, then the coyote took off.
I can here them yipping the back friends tonight, not at my window.
He assumes that position when he's "talking" to the coyotes except that it's always at night and the window tends to be open (soooo warm in this apartment) or the the coyotes won't bother stopping as they run by (we have rabbit burrows in our back yard, the partially fenced area makes hunting rabbits really easy, the coyotes will chase them into the fences.
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Re: Dogs and Coyotes....is this normal behavior?
[Re: Jamie Craig ]
#268419 - 03/09/2010 07:56 AM |
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I'd be interested in knowing if these are pure coyote or, as Ana (I think) mentioned, perhaps they're what we call coy-dogs, dog/coyote crosses. Around here the coyotes will have nothing at all to do with dogs, or people. But get that rare dog that does work its way into the pack and mate, then those pups become much more likely to come closer to the house.
I studied coyote behavior extensively in undergrad (had to pick a wild animal, they are very prevalent here, in their natural and mostly undisturbed environment). The behavior isn't what I'd call typical, but without more info I wouldn't venture a guess as to why they're so playful and interactive with your pup.
Being in an urban and more unnatural environment may stimulate that behavior, perhaps?
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Re: Dogs and Coyotes....is this normal behavior?
[Re: Jamie Craig ]
#268437 - 03/09/2010 09:32 AM |
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They have a healthy fear of dogs if challenged. Until they don't.
Its a wild animal. I wouldn't chance it, and would haze them any time they got close.
I want any animal that is capable of killing me or the dog to split when it sees or smells me.
Some things are worth figuring out, some aren't. Unless you have a vested interest in coyote behavior, learning to read it feet from you and your dog probably isn't the smartest classroom.:wink:
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