It has now been about a month into trying to house train our 9 month old Britney. Everytime I think he is getting it, something seems to happen to change things. Here is the issue I am having now, I have been crating and tethering him when out of the crate and he is doing pretty well when not in the crate, he signals when he needs to go out and pee, but when in the crate he doesn't seem able/willing to "hold it".

He had been doing fine up until last week in the crate, but then he started peeing in the crate, sometimes this has been after an hour, sometimes 4 hours, so it isn't just the timing. Also, he always will scratch and dig at the crate when he needs to go (at least when I am home, if I am not home, who knows...)

The problem is, I want to not take him out to pee when he scratches/digs at the crate because I want him to learn to hold it, but if I don't take him out, he seems to not care too much about having to sit in his pee. He looks like he is uncomfortable when this happens, so I don't think he is totally comfortable laying in his urine, but obviously not enough to decide to hold it.

I have been trying to take him out at regular intervals (two to three hours), but sometimes I have to leave him and when I do, there is the chance he pees even if he went just before crating. Is there a better way?? I don't want him to get comfortable peeing in the crate, but he chews too much to leave him on his own.

Also, should I take him out to pee when he is scratching at the crate, or should I try to make him hold it so as to not reward the scratching by letting him out?

Also, we had him checked for a UTI yesterday but haven't heard the results yet. I really think it is more an issue with him never having to hold it for the first 8 months of his life since he seems to know to signal he needs to go, but i would have thought that after a month I would see more progress (although I can't honestly say that the first weeks were completely dedicated to a schedule and tethering...

Thanks for your help,
Rob

Rob,

I would look at the dog's digging and scratching in the kennel as a signal just as I would take the "signals" he is giving you when outside the kennel which let you know he has to pee. To ignore it is obviously not working and a bit cruel to the dog. You are correct, he does not enjoy lying in his urine and it can burn his skin!

Getting the UTI test is good, and hopefully that will resolve the issue.

If things were fine until last week, does that mean he never peed in the crate prior to seven days ago?

Other folks will chime in but I beg you to please take the dog out when he it TELLING you he needs to potty and praising him like crazy when he does so. You won't be encouraging BAD behavior, you will be preventing him from soiling himself and enforcing the behavior you are trying to TEACH.

 Quote: rob capstraw

Also, we had him checked for a UTI yesterday but haven't heard the results yet. I really think it is more an issue with him never having to hold it for the first 8 months of his life since he seems to know to signal he needs to go, but i would have thought that after a month I would see more progress (although I can't honestly say that the first weeks were completely dedicated to a schedule and tethering...

Once you have the UTI results, you'll have a better idea how to proceed, obviously.

Do you have Ed's "Common Sense to House Training" e-book and the DVDs, Basic Dog Obedience and Establishing Pack Structure with the Family Pet? Your last line is telling. He hasn't had much consistency from the sound of it. "It's not the dog, it's the handler." Is the crate the proper size?

The idea is to train the dog to go on command. The dog is trying to train you on command. JMO.

Rob, I think you may need to start over with house training, and treat him like he's a very young pup.

It sounds like part of the problem is that you have been waiting for the dog to indicate when he needs to go. This is probably waiting too long and is confusing to the dog when he's in the crate.

Instead, get the dog on a very regular schedule, and initially it needs to be very frequent.(before he signals to you that he needs to go) If he spends much time in the crate because of your schedule, start it on the weekend so that you can get a good couple of days of no accidents in the crate.

Have you been associating a word for going potty? This is really important and will get him used to going within a few seconds of you giving the command. Also, are you doing the happy dance when he does his business outside?

You want to make it really clear to him that outside is where potty is done, and the best way to create that association is for you to verbally praise him in an excited tone of voice.

He'll get it!

Also, if you are putting water in the crate for him, stop doing that. I am assuming that your crate is inside at a comfortable temperature, where he wouldn't be overheated...

 Quote: Mariellena Simon

Once you have the UTI results, you'll have a better idea how to proceed, obviously.


The idea is to train the dog to go on command. The dog is trying to train you on command. JMO.

I agree completely that the goal of housebreaking is to train the dog to eliminate outdoors and on command. However, if this dog is fine in the crate UNTIL he has to pee, and then begins to scratch and dig after only an hour after being outside, and then soils himself when not let out, in my opinion, he is not trying to manipulate the owner. He is asking to go outside just as if he was out of the crate and went to the front door...

If he whines, scratches and digs ALL the time regardless of whether he has to pee or not, that is a different situation. JMO.

Hopefully the tests will solve the issue since it just began a week ago...

 Quote: barbara schuler

... please take the dog out when he it TELLING you he needs to potty and praising him like crazy when he does so. You won't be encouraging BAD behavior, you will be preventing him from soiling himself and enforcing the behavior you are trying to TEACH.

'Zackly! If he says "I gotta go" and isn't taken out, then he's being trained to go inside. It's great that he says "I gotta go," in fact. I'd chalk that up on the "Good dog" side.

 Quote: Lynne Barrows

Rob, I think you may need to start over with house training, and treat him like he's a very young pup.

It sounds like part of the problem is that you have been waiting for the dog to indicate when he needs to go. This is probably waiting too long and is confusing to the dog when he's in the crate.

Instead, get the dog on a very regular schedule, and initially it needs to be very frequent.(before he signals to you that he needs to go) If he spends much time in the crate because of your schedule, start it on the weekend so that you can get a good couple of days of no accidents in the crate.

Have you been associating a word for going potty? This is really important and will get him used to going within a few seconds of you giving the command. Also, are you doing the happy dance when he does his business outside?

You want to make it really clear to him that outside is where potty is done, and the best way to create that association is for you to verbally praise him in an excited tone of voice.

He'll get it!

Also, if you are putting water in the crate for him, stop doing that. I am assuming that your crate is inside at a comfortable temperature, where he wouldn't be overheated...

Huge ditto.

And like others here, I'm speaking from many years (and many dogs successfully housetrained).

Well, OK -- maybe more years than the others ....

Thanks for all the help! To clear some things up, when I say he was fine up until a week ago, I meant that he had only peed in the crate when there was an easily explainable reason (such as me getting stuck away and he having to stay in it longer than expected) He was fine over night and up to 3-4 hours. BTW, I also bathe him and the crate (with natures miracle)if he does go

We do throw a party for him and use a cue for going outside, I also have leerburg's housetraining ebook.

I have been trying to start at the beginning and take him out every 1.5 to 2 hours, which he is normally fine with. Sometimes he is scratching at the crate in 1.4 hours, the one time I tried to let him calm down before taking him out, he had peed in the crate already when it came time for me to take him out (i was in the other room). Once in a while he will dig at the crate when i put him in, but usually I know he has just gone outside and he will calm down pretty quick.

I guess the main question is, if I do take him out of the crate when he is digging at it and he goes straight outside to pee, will he ever learn to hold it at all or will he just learn that he gets to tell me when he needs to go out?

Maybe the key is just going a few days with no accidents in the crate or the house and he will realize he doesn't want to go?

Thanks again for all the help, I just want to hear from the vet about the UTI, I want him to be healthy, but at the same time, I wouldn't mind if there was a reason other than just not learning!

Rob

Did you hear from the vet? I get UTIs all the time. They tell me right there in the office the results of...oh yeah, a urine test. How do they do a urine test on a dog? I'm really curious. Since the breed of dog I'm getting is prone to urinary problems I suppose it would be a good thing to know.

And my answer earlier was based on reading Ed's protocol and my interpretation. Need more English classes.

I called the vet today, I was expecting them to call me the next day with the results(would have been tuesday), which they have done when they have done fecal samples in the past. They said that it sometimes take a week to get the results and they hadn't gotten them back yet. I don't know if this is because we got the full urine analysis (she offered something simpler too to find the UTI but not get as much info about other possible health issues, can't remember what she called it). So I still don't know.

As for how they did it, they used an ultrasound to look for any abnormalities in the bladder and to make sure there was enough urine to draw for the test. They then used a needle to take the blood directly from the bladder, I think they prefer to do this rather than bringing in a sample so that it is not exposed to contamination. BTW- it cost about $150 for the ultrasound and both tests, this may be a rip off compared to what others pay, i am not sure, but I live in downtown Chicago so everything is pretty much a ripoff when it comes to money!

also, I think you were right on about the consistency of my housetraining compared to the housetraining ebook. The problem is, I work odd hours and my girlfriend travels half the time, so we haven't had a chance to be really consistent, which is part of why it is taking so long I am sure!! I finally have more time to devote to doing it right, which is why I am trying to get as much info as possible, and great news, He didn't pee in the house or the crate at all today and he was in the crate longer than I wanted to leave him (unexpectedly) tonight. I did take him out a whole lot though! it seems like the most important thing is to not try to make him hold it, but to make sure he realizes that he will have plenty of chances to go outside and he doesn't need to go inside!

Sorry for the long post, but thanks for all the help, hopefully today was a sign of good things to come, I am already feeling much less stressed about it!

Rob