Hello all. nine weeks old pup. As I get the sit I market it, pause then reward, so far so good. Now moving to the down, the pup bites and tries to get the reward natural, don't know about the bite part? Here comes my biggest problem. As doing above, he downs correctly, I give the YES, but then he rolls on his side hip. I am already committed to the Yes, Should I still Give the reward for completing the down correctly? But, the roll on hip that is not the position I want. I thought It was the linoleum, so I moved to hard wood. OK but after one or two go downs he goes back to the roll on his side. Maybe just slow down and keep working? What do you say. Dan

Hi Dan,

First off how are you holding the food? Also, dont go from a sit to a down, go from a stand to a down, you will do the down from a sit later.

I had kind of the same problem with my puppy (the one below). I had M. Ellis help me out. It is real simple, after I could get her engaged. It is demonstrated in video if you watch closely.

Anyways, using his technique,
1. have him\her standing in front of you
2. have your food in your hand
3. standing fairly close to the dog (so he\she can’t slide forward),
4. slide your hand straight down between your legs, he should follow the food with his nose into the down.

Remember, if it is a competition dog, you dont want any forward movement going into the down.

Here is the important part, and what I was doing wrong during the teaching phase, which he pointed out. I was sliding my hand down off-center slightly causing my pup’s back legs to lie off to one side in a non-sphinx way (which is what I don’t want for a proper down).

His explanation, the dog’s butt will do the opposite of where his nose is going. It was fixed the next down, it was all my fault. It was very slight but made a BIG difference. Her downs are near perfect now after re-teaching the exercise. I backed up and re-taught the whole down from the very, very beginning, no verbal command until it was mechanically correct and on que…obviously marking the proper down.

Dont mark a behavior you dont want, it will confuse the dog, down is down the way you want it, in other words your dog is laying down, which you dont want.

Now, I am very careful of where my hand is during any “luring” or any other phase of training with markers, especially heeling.

I hope this makes sense, sometimes I am not good at explaining things in words, this was for my puppy and it worked for me!!

 Quote: Danilo A. Nelson

I give the YES, but then he rolls on his side hip. I am already committed to the Yes, Should I still Give the reward for completing the down correctly?

re-read your post:

If you screw up and give a YES, you have to give the reward...and remember YES is a release.

Scott love you man. I haven't got the CD as of yet, It's a payday thing. Everything you said sounds as gospel, I will have to read over your post several time to get it. (that is my Sisyphus) always have to work on it. You have many points, I will go over each one. Please don't leave me now. I am very slow Physically, some might say all around. Dan

Scott I also re-read your first post. And I got it, explained real well. My release word is OK. weather I mess up or not. So Yes used is a Marker and a released? Or can I use YES one and then OK release the other? Dan

You can use any word you want Dan.
The only thing important is consistancy.


If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
M&M Enterprises

I dont fully understand what you are asking, but:

I use the word YES as a mark, like this for example, I say “sit”, puppy sits, I say YES!, puppy gets reward, exercise over, stand up, lie down, do back flips, it doesn't matter, but keep engagement and repeat…

YES released the dog. For example, doesn’t have to hold the sit (or whatever you are teaching)

I dont use YES to mark then say OK as a release, that is not what we are trying to do with markers. It creates a gray area; we want exercises to be black & white, no gray area leaving the dog hanging out there.

Later on when your puppy gets older you will add in “good” for duration. Like this, I say “sit”, puppy sits, I say “good” (adds duration), “good” (more duration), then YES!, puppy explodes to get reward. Very exciting for puppy!

So as a summary, here is what I want to see:
1. I say sit
2. Puppy sits, (the right way I taught her)
3. The instant puppies butt hits the ground I say YES! (in very excited tone)
4. I want puppy to explode to get reward (at least at the learning stage for young puppies)

Does that help?

Hi Dan, this free video illustrates what Scott said: Engagement, Reward, Timing and Positioning. Check out the rest of free Michael Ellis videos - there is enough to learn there till you can get the DVDs.

Dan,
You can use any word you want for the release.
yes, no, maybe, okay, sky, phooey, turd, cup, kill, log, daffodil, pen, ink, dead, tv, elf, figs, java, go, fart, tree, Tesla or any one of a gazillion words in the human language.

Personally, I prefer words from the Ju/"hoansi tribal language myself.

What matters is that you're consistent.

M&M Enterprises

 Quote: randy allen

Dan,
You can use any word you want for the release.
yes, no, maybe, okay, sky, phooey, turd, cup, kill, log, daffodil, pen, ink, dead, tv, elf, figs, java, go, fart, tree, Tesla or any one of a gazillion words in the human language.

Personally, I prefer words from the Ju/"hoansi tribal language myself.

What matters is that you're consistent.

M&M Enterprises

Right, but there is not a mark (whatever the word is) AND a separate release command. The mark word is the release.

As another side note:

Make sure you only mark once, not multiple YES's (or no, maybe, okay, sky, phooey, turd, cup, kill, log, daffodil, pen, ink, dead, tv, elf, figs, java, go, fart, tree, Tesla) because the pup was sooo good!