We recently got a 1 year old black lab. He is about 120lbs. He was a rescue dog, and we have limited information about his backround. He is a very beautiful dog with excellent manners 98% of the time. We have had him neutered and are attending obedience classes with him. The problem is: when anyone (especially a woman) grabs his collar to hold or move him he snarls, growls and will bite. This has happened at least 3 times. He does not react this way if he is on a lead, or if you are just petting him and playing with the collar. This is the only time that he has shown any signs of aggression. A breeder suggested that we try a prong collar on him. The prong collar made him immediately worse. He went back to being calm when the prong collar was removed. Another suggestion was made to use a muzzel on him while working with him. He does not object to it and actually seems used to it. what kind of suggestions does anyone have for us?? thank you

Susan, does this happen when you're standing in front of him or just to the side, and reaching for him near his face with your hand? Or does it happen when you reach for the collar from the back of him as well? If it's just from the front or in his peripheral vision, I would almost suspect it's a case of "hand shy" possibly from being smacked around as a pup. I would nix the prong collar, for sure, and use positive training only in this instance. Make it the most fabulous treat you can think of, pieces of hot dogs or chicken, and just keep it in your hand and let him come to you to take it. Very slowly reach the other hand out, palm up and low, just a little, and I do mean by an inch, at the same time. Do this repeatedly for a few days, but don't advance the empty hand to quickly. Gauge his comfort level carefully, you'll know if you're getting too close too quickly. All dogs give warning signs before the point of biting, it's a matter of being able to read the signals, whether it's a growl, a show of teeth, or even something as small as an ear twitch. And by all means keep the muzzle on him while doing these exercises if he's comfortable wearing it.

A 120lb. LABRADOR? Holy shamoly! Are you sure he's not mixed with something like Mastiff?

I agree with the desensitization route. Since he's young, I'd say that's probably in his favor as far as being able to make progress, but be sure to take it slow.

I would strongly recommend that you find a trainer who can help design a systematic program of desensitization specifically tailored to this dog. In the meantime, you should keep a leash on him at all times that you can supervise him so that if you need to get physical control over him, you can do so without grabbing his collar.

Keep in mind that desensitization takes months, not days. This is a long term process and the first step is to stop situations from occurring that elicit the negative response, while practicing structured and controlled training setups on a daily basis. A systematic program will break down the specific trigger (collar grabs) into small steps, starting with whatever is easiest for the dog and does not cause the dog to have a negative response. Over time, you slowly increase the criteria. ***Progress should be based upon the dog's reaction, not some arbitrary timetable. ONLY when you are seeing happy responses to the current level should you progress to the next.***

For example, a systematic program *might* look something like:

Week 1) Approach dog with hands hanging loosely at your sides, and feed dog from left hand (note: Food treats should be something that he ONLY gets during these training exercises, and they should be something extra special like boiled chopped chicken liver or cocktail shrimp or anything really special). Feed dog treats in rapid fire fashion for several seconds, then turn and walk away and ignore him for several seconds. Repeat a few times (three to five) and practice every day.
Week 2) Approach dog in manner described above, only this time move your right hand, palm down, two inches forward and while holding it there, feed dog from left hand.
Week 3) Same as above, only have right hand four inches forward.

...and so on, until you have your right hand level with the top of the dog's head while feeding him from your left hand, and from there, the right hand gets closer to the collar over time, until at the very end, you approach dog, take hold of collar with right hand, feed from left hand.

Definitely use a muzzle during this process for your own safety, and so that you can be relaxed. If you are tense because you're afraid he's going to bite you, he will pick up on your tension. Just make sure it's a muzzle he can eat treats through. Also never increase the difficulty of the exercise if he is having trouble at the current level. Instead, decrease the difficulty until it is easy for him, and only when you start seeing happy responses should you increase the difficulty, again, in tiny increments; dogs notice the smallest changes. This is supposed to be positive for him every step of the way, and you need to be relaxed and happy while you're doing this, so you have to be patient and commit yourself to doing this for the long haul.

If at any time he has a hard time with the exercise, drop back to a previous level where he could handle it and work there until you see a positive response. Look for things like tail carriage, whether the eyes look hard or soft, and whether the mouth is relaxed and open, or is closed. He should look relaxed and happy, with loose tail, relaxed mouth, soft eyes, etc. If he looks tense, then it's too hard and you should NOT increase the difficulty.

....and be sure to cut back on his meal portions since he'll be getting a lot of food during this process. He probably doesn't need to gain any more weight. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In closing, I should tell you that I am not a professional, and my advice is NOT a substitute for competent, in person help. My sample training plan is simply an example of the kind of plan that, in my opinion, you should implement. The specifics of the plan should be between you and a qualified professional.

Thank you all for your responses. Professional or not they are very helpful. We did immediately get rid of the prong collar when he reacted so badly to it. His response to the grabbing doesn't matter where the person is standing. But I am beginning to see the warning signs when he is triggered. He seems to be thinking about if he wants to get worse or not. Let me explain. The one and only time he got aggressive with my husband, he snarled and snapped a little then looked at him and sat down. The dog was still growling a little but did not advance or continue snapping. My husband scolded him loudly, told him to just sit there and walked away from him. We are doing our best not to raise our hands toward or around him at all until we have this under control. Since we know so little about his life before, we can not be sure if he had been abused before. We do know that he has been well trained. In taking him to obedience classes, it is more like a refresher course for him and a training class for us. The trainers there said that there are several types of muzzels to work with. The one they gave us to borrow until we get one of our own is like a 'sock' with a strap to go around the back of his head. He doesn't seem to mind it at all. In your experience is there a better kind for a dog his size. Ohh I almost forgot - we have been told that he is a papered english black lab, apparently bred for showing. He has a very large head. Thank you again for your comments and help.

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But I am beginning to see the warning signs when he is triggered. He seems to be thinking about if he wants to get worse or not.

I think what you're seeing is the first signs of conflict. The dog is feeling threatened but hasn't become reactive yet. At this point, if you continue to push, he will react. I don't think of this as conscious decision making on the dog's part. When you're working with him, you do not want to see this. You want to see happy responses to your actions.

About the muzzle, a wire basket muzzle would be a good choice because he can still pant with it on and accept treats.

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we have been told that he is a papered english black lab, apparently bred for showing. He has a very large head.

Not to be nitpicky or anything, but there is no such thing, unless he was bred in England; and what do you mean by "papered"? A lot of the bench style (show) Labs are thick with big blocky heads, but even so, should not be that large. Even in England a Lab that large does not fit the breed standard. And just a terminology pointer, "black lab" is not a breed. The name of the breed is Labrador retriever, or Lab for short. They come in three colors; black, yellow, and chocolate, and the color is not part of the breed name.

Thank you for rescuing a Lab! They really are a wonderful breed, and there are way too many in need of good homes.

I would let the dog wear a short leash attached to his regular collar.. so you don't have to reach in and grab him by the collar.. I think you said he doesn't do it on leash.. I would also go with the desensitizing route..

Many times the grab for the collar is accompanied by strong emotions, usually anger, from the handler. This is where the defensive reaction from the dog develops. Along with all of the other good advice, I would be sure to be very calm and unemotional when you handle this dog. Raising your voice to correct him or taking his behavior "personal" would be a mistake,IMO.
Not saying that you created this, just that someone along the line did.
Also, some dogs take longer to bond and learn to trust their new handlers. Most dogs take a few months others can take longer. Sometimes, obedience training right off the bat is not a good idea. These types of dogs must have a strong bond first.

As another point of view...

My housemate had a live in BF with a Rottie that was collar shy. He was rough with him as a pup and anytime you would reach for his collar he would start with the hackles and growling.

When I first moved in I did not know this at all. He was let in the house and planted himself in my lap. I grabbed his collar because I didn't want him to launch off of me. We sat on the couch for a while and he never once showed any of his usual problem. They both walked in and were amazed.

After he started becoming defensive they had fed it with their own apprehension and attitude. I had no fear when I reached for his collar because I had no reason to. (dumb luck) I mention this because you too may be causing some of the reaction from the expectation of him growling.

The recommendation I gave them was the same as what you have been given above. Drag a leash and/or a tab. The dog had been let loose and would repeatedly get in to trouble so Heath would then go grab him by the collar and yell/correct him then throw him in a crate. This was totally handler created. It has been resolved now almost 95% with his owner.

Try not to feed the dog with your own feelings. If you are in a situation where you feel this is too much dog, it is better to let him go to someone more experienced than it is to continue to let him win with this behavior.

In my opinion this type of aggression is basically fear based. I had a similar problem with a dominant shepherd. On this occasion it involved putting on a harness as the trigger. Being inexperienced I fueled the situation with my own apprehension. I asked many people for help and recieved a lot of advice. Most was telling me to correct the dog heavily (due to him being a dominant dog) and put the harness on any way.
It didnt feel right. I finally recieved very different advice which suggested aserting my dominance elsewhere (eg. going through doorways first.. extended downs..rolling dog onto back.. etc) while basically ignoring growling etc during the situation. In your instance this would be the collar. Some suggested only approach the situation when I had to. Others suggested putting the harness on and off as often as possible. Thus desensitising the dog.
This method worked a treat. And with what I refer to as "situation aggresion" as is your case, I would suggest this.

Cheers