Ok guys....We all know about weak nerved dogs that are sound sensitive due to temperament. we all know that its pretty much impossible to fix if it is due to temperament.

Ok so here is the question...
I will use Eddie as an example.
He is really strong nerved.
Not much bothers him, and if something does, he will investigate it.
You can drop pans behind him, the crutches can fall on him, new things don't phase him, other loud noises are not a problem. Thunder is a non issue.
Except......
Recently balloons popping have become an issue.
Gunshots and fire works have always bothered him.
No other noises bother him.......


Possibility of earlier ear infections...I've heard that this can cause problems.

Ideas on how to desensitize him?

I am also interested in this question as I want to train service dogs for others, and have come across this in other dogs..fine with all the "tests" but gunshots/fireworks/backfires causing issue.

What can I do with him...or any other dog that is fine on all loud noises....except gunshots or fireworks?

It's a nerve issue, I would think that most anything you do would be more of a bandaid then an actual 'fix'. You can't fix nerve issues. You can most likely desensitize to some degree, but I would not call that a fix. Nor would I consider a dog with this temeperment 'fault' to be a service dog candadate. For a service dog, you need a very solid tempermented, sound nerved, social dog. I would not want to put the time & energy into training a dog that can't deal with the world around them. You can't control every aspect of your enviroment & need to have a service dog that can be out in the world with unexpected things happening.

I don't know about where you live...but I know there are people setting off very loud fireworks around here all year around. Even gun shots can be heard in acres if woods behind my house. I KNOW that there are guys hunting back there at night this time of year. Once in a while my reactive female will bark at the first one, but most of the time they don't even lift their heads when loud noises go off.

This kind of dog may work for you, personally, but would not be safe for most people, as a service dog.

Hi Willie, good to see you on the board, how are you recuperating? hope all is well.

I am wondering if he sees the balloon, smell it and caress it, then show him you are going to burst far away at first, it in front of him, several times coming closer as he permits, His nerves might get accustomed to the noise. My simple version. Dan

Gun shyness is pretty well discussed topic among gun dog owners and breeders. The consensus there in those forums seems to be that gun shyness is learned either through bad experience or startling overexposure and I would tend to agree. They do state however that it takes a long time to cure if a dog starts to spook.

Most remedies I've read involve a starter pistol and a pan of food or other high value reward. Make dog food as you normally would, drop the pan in front of the dog, walk 75-100 feet away and fire the pistol once. Repeat the next day, slowly moving closer as the dog *hopefully* ignores what you or your helper is doing. It's important whoever observes the dog doesn't react in any way to the starter pistol and acts like the noise is a non event.

For fireworks I would try observing from a safe vantage point to start with in a controlled fashion like sitting in a lawn chair and asking for a sit or down. New Years Eve planned public shows are great for this if you can have a viewpoint without people setting off their own really close by. I usually just ask for it to be a non reactive event for my dogs and so far so good. They usually just sleep.

My IG has rock solid nerves for a little dog -she rides on big tractors, lawnmowers, skitters around machinery etc. When our old ACD needed to be PTS (was in a diabetic collapse, sleeping comatose under a bush) I had our hired man put a 22 to her
head as she slept.
Around that time, the IG became TERRIFIED of guns-now she hates thunder, too. If I get a gun out she begins to shake.
I wonder if some farm dogs don't "know" by smell, or sound, or something, that after a "bang" comes hurt. I wonder if they can't smell the wounded deer in the woods.
I think maybe some dogs make the connection between "bang" and a bad event.
I personally think that it's more than the sound itself.
"Gun dogs" get to associate the sound with running and retrieving and fun. For farm dogs, it's a sound of death, of a deer, or a down cow, or a coon etc. Is it possible they put it together? What do you all think?

Firearms are a big part of our life and it’s important that our dogs are comfortable with them.

We’ve never had any problems with pups that came to us as babies. Introduction when they are young goes a long way. When they are out goofing around, as babies do, we introduce the .22’s into the mix. They’re having fun and the noise just becomes a part of it, gradually increasing the calibers.

We’re kind of lucky in that we have a target range set up on our 70 acres. With older rescues and friends that bring gun shy dogs, much like Melissa said, we always tell them to bring their favorite toys or treats, highest value rewards. I’ll head out with the dog, a walkie talkie and the motivators to the furthest area away from the range. If I don’t know the dog or know that it’s a panic runner, I’ll put them on a long-line until I can gage their response.

When the dog’s really comfortable, enjoying the sights and smells of the walk, I buzz Bob and get him to start popping off the .22. It’s barely audible from this distance and if there’s no reaction, we start heading slowly back. When I see the slightest sign of anxiety or alerting to the noise, I ring Bob to stop. I walk them back to the non-reactive zone (very animated and encouraging) and ensure that they’ve recovered. I bring out the rewards, engage in a play session and have Bob start firing again, slowly bringing the game closer to the range.

Every dog is different. One was so highly motivated that we practically got back to the range before we needed to stop for a slight reaction. She simply needed exposure and different circumstances than she initially reacted too. Others have a very ingrained fear and it takes quite a few sessions. One dog was situational - he did just fine on our property but still reacted strongly when he heard loud noises at his home. I think this had more to do with the fairly anxious owner.

The initial noise from guns and fireworks can be startling for people too and dogs pick up on this instantly. I think it’s really important to have an immediate back-up thought process for our startled reactions around them. Mine is to kick into a high play when I know my reaction has caused them to react.

My weak-nerved shepherd has absolutely no fear of high-powered guns whatsoever. When we first got him I thought this was going to be a huge issue. About eight months into rehab, it was time to check it out. He was doing great with thunderstorms and we’d successfully addressed quite a few issues. With him, the large kong is to die for and he loves running down the banks at the property to get it. This isn’t the furthest area from the range but it’s somewhat muffled. Absolutely no reaction. So instead of moving closer, I had Bob increase the caliber. Not once did he react. I eventually just walked him back to the range, threw him in the truck and started my practice session.

I do want to caution with this though, years ago we had a dog go deaf at 9 and the vet felt it was due largely to his exposure to gun fire. We wear hearing protection and just didn’t think about his big sensitive ears and what we were doing to them. If we both need/want to be at the range for an extended period of time, often we’ll load the boys in the SUV and park it a fair distance away.

Willie, do you have a gun range near you? Or access to a target area? The great thing about this fear, as opposed to thunderstorms, is that it’s easy to create the circumstances that need desensitizing to.

Dan, CJ, Melissa, Betty, Thanks for the Ideas!
Thanks to everyone for all of your replies.

I personally think there is more to these specific cases than "weak nerves"
I know weak nerves.
Eddie for instance will pass every service dog temperament test there is...
I am constantly blown away by how strong his nerves are..and he goes everywhere literally with me.

Betty, interesting thought....Eddie was a working farm dog before this, and yes he was around on slaughter days.....

Interesting case in point involving a horse, gunfire and death:
One of our horses went down overnights unknown to us.
It was rainy and muddy.
Our son found him down, and ran to get us, the horse's hind end would not work..he had dug a trench around himself spinning around the hind end that wouldn't work.
My husband determined that his pelvis was broken and shot him right then.
The horse's suffering was unbelievable and we didn't want to wait for the vet to arrive and leave him lying there suffering.
My husband's horse was in the field at the time.....he had always came running to my husband when called....well he walked up to his fallen buddy and sniffed him...then looked at My poor DH, and walked away...and wouldn't come near my DH for 2 months.
(The gunshot has NOT spooked the horse, so that wasn't why)
That horse put together what happened....I wonder if the farm dogs as Betty suggested do as well.

Also, when Eddie was about 1 yr old he got out of the field a few times. We thought he was going though the fence, but it turns out he was jumping over the 4ft stock gate!!!!!

It is possible that someone took a shot at him when he was out on one of his jaunts.

CJ, up till then he had been fine with gunfire...as we too enjoy shooting. Sooooo??? I would love your opinion!!

The ear sensitivity is a total possibility....I have actually read that they can get damage from ear infections....

I think I will take Dan's idea about the balloons and try that first.
I think I will follow that by taking Eddie out when the kids are shooting their BB guns and then their higher powered pellet/Air rifles.

Start there and see where it goes.

Anyone have any ideas on how to rig earplugs for a dog?

When I attend public events where there are loud speakers
Eddie shows signs of discomfort....not a nerve issue..no shaking fear...it just looks like it hurts his ears.
I'd like to come up with a solution for that.

Willie

Ps, When possible I am going to add a gunfire test to the service dog temperament testing that I do.

I think dogs (and coyotes too!) know a gun can reach out and hurt.
I wonder how dogs trained for war are trained to tolerate the noise and incredible scariness.

 Quote: betty landercasp

I think maybe some dogs make the connection between "bang" and a bad event.

I think this is an interesting “human” concept however, I really don’t think dogs relate it that way. They generally don’t have a deep, personal, bonded relationship with the farm animal and even if they do, I don’t think “death” relates to “bad things” for them like it does for us.

We’ve never had “gun dogs” per se, but have had them in on many deer kills with us, often getting fresh organs (depending on the time of day) as we field dress it. Bringing out the guns in hunting season sparks the same amount of excitement as e-collars on an early morning hiking day.

Most recently, the death of our most valued pack member put a very realistic view, for me, on how dogs see death. The few minutes of them examining and sniffing the body and then looking to us for direction. They were looking for our reaction in how to respond or what to do next.

I think with the tragedies that you both (Willie and Betty) described, the dogs were also caught up in your emotions. The tragic sight of her comatose under a tree, getting the hired hand, bullet to the head, losing a beloved companion unexpectedly; hubby having to shoot his beloved horse and the torment it went through during the night, spinning a hole in the mud, attempting to get up, the pain it must have been in and gone through.

These situations generally stay with us for a while and temporarily change our demeanor somewhat. I believe this is what the dogs are reacting too. Many working farm dogs are exposed to dead animals in the field and slaughter on a regular basis – hmm… the incredible Border Collie comes to mind and these are generally very balanced dogs that love their jobs.

All just my thoughts of course, interesting discussion.

I am guilty of anthropomorphising a lot, for someone with a ton of education it is embarassing. But, in my own defense I will say that after 30 years of being on a farm, I've seen things I can't understand any other way.
We've all seen those shows where elephants are depicted examining the bones of
their dead. Who knows what goes on in a critters mind.
It used to be thought that animals do not "think" at all, that they only "react", and operate on instinct, or thru the most basic of motives, like fear, or lust, or hunger.
That's not all there is in cattle, I'm certain there is more.
I'm less certain about dogs.