Hello all,

Perhaps you can help me. We have an 8 mo female Bullmastiff puppy named Bella. She is on a raw diet. We feed her about 3 lbs. of food at 7:00 in the morning. Sometimes she doesn't poop all day, sometimes twice a day and then waits until the middle of the night and does so in her crate. She used to eat twice a day morning and about 12 noon and still the same problem. She'll do it for about 4-5 days (ususally around the full moon) and then she'll be okay.

We have a 2 1/2 yo male Bullmastiff named Luka (who is the best dog we have ever had) and they get along pretty well. I am wondering if female dogs hold grudges b/c she is not allowed to roam the house free. She is tethered in the kitchen, is let out for play time and then at night we have her out of the crate for a little while, where she sleeps on the living room floor and then into her crate after we let her out. She can poop at that time and then still poops in the middle of the night.

My husband is so disgusted, he wants to get rid or her. I think we have done everything right -- we have the 8 weeks to 8 months as well as the training dvd's and cannot figure out why she does this. The breeder had given us some insight, and she was good for a month and then it started up again.

Thanks for reading this far.

It is hard for me to kind of set aside for a bit " She can poop at that time and then still poops in the middle of the night. ... sometimes twice a day and then waits until the middle of the night and does so in her crate.... My husband is so disgusted, he wants to get rid or her" as if a pup was pooping on purpose at an inconvenient time. "Waits" ? "Grudges" that are expressed as midnight pooping?




Has this dog had a fecal lately?

Are the poops formed logs? Ever pudding or water?

How long before bed (and for how long a time) is she outside BEING WALKED (not standing there) before bed?

Do you feed the same time every day? Is she maintaining/gaining/losing, what?

Does she have access to trash, cat food, anything else?

What was the insight from the breeder?

What are the ingredients of the diet? Does the RMB amount (in this case, I mean bone content) vary from one day to another?



eta
Welcome to the board. This can be fixed. Healthy puppy potty problems are owner error. You should be happy to hear this, because it means that the solution or solutions are in your hands.

But I also want to point out that if she is encountering anger or "correction" at pooping when she has to poop, that's a big bonding problem as well as a surefire way to put conflict and anxiety into a natural function, or more likely just convince the dog that the owner simply gets angry and punishes or yells randomly. Please step back and realize that she can no more hold it for hours than we can.


Edited by Connie Sutherland (11/22/2010 03:26 PM)
Edit reason: eta

This should be an easy fix...

You mention that she out of the crate for a while in the evening, taken out and then put up. Is this correct?

First of all, when you take her out in the evening, what time is this? Regardless, walk her around until she does go to the bathroom and voids her system every night before bed. No ifs, ands or buts. She MUST go. If you have to put her up and take her out again, do it, but be sure she goes. Walk her and get her bowels moving or teach her to go on command (I suggest everybody does this anyway...)

Dogs don't feel jealousy the same way we do, nor can they form the complex thought of "I am angry that she is out, I will potty in the crate and teach those humans!" It just doesn't work that way for them. One has nothing to do with the other.

How many times a day does she get to go out and potty on a daily basis?

And in addition to Connie's questions about the diet, does she get any treats in the evening?

She is a bit young to be going 24 hours between meals at this point... Don't get me wrong, I feed my adults daily if it works for them, but never a pup under a year...

I know Connie asked about the BM structure, but specifically, what is it like in the crate at night? More, or less, formed?

Thank you for replying Connie. And I just want to state that my husband and I are just frustrated with the poop in the crate. She can go for a month without going in her crate and then bam she starts all over again. We do not do anything to harm the pup, nor do we yell or punish her for going in the crate.

Here are my answers to your questions,

Has this dog had a fecal lately? Not since August.

Are the poops formed logs? Ever pudding or water? Yes, they are formed logs. Not pudding or watery.

How long before bed (and for how long a time) is she outside BEING WALKED (not standing there) before bed? We usually take her out to the backyard about 15 minutes before bed. It is a fenced in area that we take her to and that is where she goes to the bathroom. She does not get a walk at this hour as we live in the country and it is pitch dark outside. I have a feeling that this might be the problem and I need to figure out the logistics of walking her at that hour.

Do you feed the same time every day? Yes, we were feeding her at 7:00 a.m. and at 5 p.m. Now we are feeding her at 7 a.m.

Is she maintaining/gaining/losing, what? She is gaining weight.

Does she have access to trash, cat food, anything else? No access to trash or cat food, but she does like to pick up sticks which we take away from her.

What was the insight from the breeder? The breeder is the one that told me about the fact that she might resent being in the crate at night while Luka is roaming free, which is why we let her loose (she is tethered) for a while in the evening before she goes back in the crate. Also, we had her crate in the living room but it was at the other end partially blocked by the couch and we moved the couch so she could be more of a part of the family. He also suggested feeding her once a day to see if that would fix the problem. He was as stumped as we are. Bullmastiffs are a stubborn breed but I've found that to be in obedience training them.

What are the ingredients of the diet? Does the RMB amount (in this case, I mean bone content) vary from one day to another?
She gets chicken leg quarters, chicken necks, beef, fish oil and a teaspoon of kelp/alfalfa and an egg every other day. The bone content might vary a little bit from day to day.

I was suspecting it was owner error, but could not analyze why that is why I posted here.

I am looking forward to your reply. Thanks.



Edited by Zina Cerrone (11/22/2010 06:53 PM)
Edit reason: to add egg to ingredients of diet

Thank you for replying Jessica. I have copied your questions and will answer them

You mention that she out of the crate for a while in the evening, taken out and then put up. Is this correct? Yes. She is out of her crate for most of the day, unless I am out of the house. She is tethered in the kitchen and when I can watch her she roams the kitchen and laundry room freely.

First of all, when you take her out in the evening, what time is this? Between 11:00 and 11:30. She does not go on command. Walking her around our property can be a problem though as we live in the country with no sidewalks and it is very dark. But if we have to we will figure out a way to do so. (I am afraid of walking in to a skunk, raccoon, or porcupine as they have been known to roam about the property.)

How many times a day does she get to go out and potty on a daily basis? She goes out at least six - eight times a day for potty and play time.

And in addition to Connie's questions about the diet, does she get any treats in the evening? No she does not, periodically we will give her an egg.

She is a bit young to be going 24 hours between meals at this point... Don't get me wrong, I feed my adults daily if it works for them, but never a pup under a year... The breeder suggested we try this to see if it helps any.

I know Connie asked about the BM structure, but specifically, what is it like in the crate at night? More, or less, formed? It is formed.

I look forward to your reply.

Hi Zina and welcome!
I think, as Jessica and Connie alluded to, this is probably a problem of getting your pup to 'go' consistently, every evening before you put her in the crate.

If it were me, I would switch back to two times per day feeding, with the last meal fairly early, like 4-5 pm.

A schedule that worked for my dog at that age was a walk/play session in the morning (before the first meal), long enough to guarantee a bowel movement. Then breakfast and 1/2 hour later another short walk so she could empty her bladder before I went to work.

My husband would let her out at lunchtime, for a potty break and a little play.

Late afternoon, a play session before feeding, then feeding her, then an hour or so of doing nothing, to let the meal digest a bit. Then another play session. And then later in the evening a walk long enough to produce a bm, if she didn't have one during the earlier session.

I think the problem with feeding once per day at this age is that you have a large amount of food working its way through the pup's digestive system, and probably not being eliminated all at once. Smaller meals mean smaller BM's that would be easier for a pup to control and would likely be moving along faster and more predictably. JMO

If you get her into a more consistent routine, where you are walking her until she has a BM, I bet you will see this problem go away.

PS, I would want to be seeing at least 2 bm's per day from her...

My husband is out with our six month old right now waiting for the final poop of the night

Aside from the excellent advice you were given, how big is her crate? Is it large enough for her to go to the bathroom and avoid it or small enough that if she goes, she's in it?

My pup is on his second crate, with a third awaiting being brought in from the garage once he is big enough. Each crate has only left him with enough room to lay down comfortably. He will whine in his crate if he has to go potty (otherwise he is quiet as a mouse), a rare occurrence in the night, but it does happen and I will quickly and calmly let him out and then return him to his crate. We also use the "go potty" command. Comes in handy even when they are older...like taking my 8 yr old GSD to a pet expo and she literally peed on a 2 by 2 patch of dead grass simply because I told her too.

And in all the time I typed that, dear hubby hasn't returned with Vigo...guess it's my turn. Suppose it is just my luck that the dog goes to the bathroom better for me!

Your dog might resent this too much, but, if you take a wooden kitchen match, lubricate it with butter or vaseline, and put it in her rectum thermometer style, about 1/2 " in, it will produce a poop in short order, which you could them reward.
Your dog is probably too big for such measures. My IG gets this treatment occasionally in winter when it is so cold she thinks it's "too cold to poop outside".

Hehehehe!! That is an old show dog trick that is rarely shared with the "newbies" in the ring...

Works too, but many dogs don't particularly keen on the idea though...

And I just wanted to add, those are the pertyest Bullmastiffs! I love the breed, and yours look great!!!