Please Help!
#26514 - 12/08/2003 11:34 AM |
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Hi everybody, I am new here and I need your help.
I have a 1.5 y/o male Cocker Spaniel, he is extremely agressive, somebody has already told me he has the typical dominant behaviour and I should take him to a Behaviorist. The problem is I can't find one in this area, I am in El Paso, TX. He bites everybody, real bad... I am scared to death, he is very protective on me, although he has bite me a couple of times, he bites my husband all the time, friends, guests, etc. We don't know what else to do... can somebody please help us? We need professional help, he is completely out of control! Thanks so much!
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Re: Please Help!
[Re: Ana Maria ]
#26515 - 12/08/2003 12:34 PM |
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Ana - He bites everybody, real bad... I am scared to death, he is very protective on me, although he has bite me a couple of times, he bites my husband all the time, friends, guests, etc. We don't know what else to do... can somebody please help us.
My reply - If he was my Cocker/dog, I'd put a muzzle on him and start given leash corrections if he even growled, a pop (not striking the dog) jerking the leash and a loud "No", being that he is acting so crazy I'd would bet he has not been obedience trained, it doesn't matter because this sounds like a poor training, socailization and or temperment problem. The Cocker is a popular breed and have been over bred, causing these mutants.
Any way the way I see it you have three options
1.) Find professional help, 2.) take charge of the incident by taking control of the dog yourself by using a muzzle, leash and buy a crate so that you can crate him when visitors come by.
A dog like this can cause serious wounds your family and friends should not have to endure this. And you can be suited, home insurance goes up things can get ugly.
When you want to release him from the muzzle like when it times to feed him or just play time or when you are proofing him (testing to see if the training has helped).
The ultimate goal is to control this behavior, the 3rd option if he can't be controlled. And continues to be is a saftey hazard to the public and he must be destroyed long stroy short. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I hate to adovcate such an extreme control method, but if he is biting you, your husband and visitors, he would be a nightmare for a startled 4-5 yrs old child that crossed his path.
I have to ask did you encourage this when he was younger? If not I think it is a poor nerve problem. If you can find professional help you need to try option 1-3.
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Re: Please Help!
[Re: Ana Maria ]
#26516 - 12/08/2003 02:04 PM |
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Hi Don, thanks so much for your help.
First, I need to tell you that I don't know if we have encourage this behavior, I guess we have by letting him do whatever he wants and by showing no discipline, we have no children and this dog is our baby... we have never ever considered putting him down, we can't do that, I understand is dangerous having him, but I want to believe there is something we can do to help him.
He went to puppy obedience school and he is great with the obedience stuff, also when all this started we found a certified trainer and we took him for about 6 months, she worked with extreme cruel measures, it was so painful for us but we were willing to do it because we though it was going to help him, but after six months of training his behavior was worst than ever, it was obvious to us that he didn't respond to that kind of training, so we stopped taking him. She did all what you are saying, kept him on a leash 24 hours a day and shock him if he ever even grawled, sprayed vinegar when he grawled which made him way more angry... I don't know now what to think about it.
Now, you mention the muzzle.. there is no way we can put a muzzle on him, there is no way we can approach or touch him most of the times, we even thought there was something medically wrong with him, but no, he just gets like scared, I don't know. We also know, that we are to be blamed, we spoiled him so much, we let him do what he wants, when he wants, he is a very needy dog, he needs constant attention 24 hours a day and we gave it to him when he required it... now I know this is wrong.
We don't know what else to do, I realize we need professional help but can't find any in this area.
Again, thanks so much, I really appreciate your interest.
Ana Maria
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Re: Please Help!
[Re: Ana Maria ]
#26517 - 12/08/2003 02:36 PM |
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Ana Maria, you must find a way to separate him from guests. If you and your husband are willing to tolerate being bitten, that's one thing but guests should not have to.
Do you have a baby gate? When a visitor comes, before allowing them to enter the home, lure the dog into another room with something he really likes, such as raw hamburger or boiled liver. Once he is in there, close the door or put up a baby gate so that he is contained, and then your visitors can enter safely. You must remove his access to visitors completely.
For you and your husband, you must ignore this dog completely for the next three days. That means, no petting, no play, NOTHING except for fulfilling his basic needs to eat and go potty. But when you do feed him and potty him, do not give him a lot of attention. Just be neutral; not happy, not angry, just matter of fact with no emotion. After ignoring him for a while, do not give him anything he wants until he has followed a command first.
Eliminate his opportunities to show aggression. For example, if he guards the couch, then eliminate his access to the couch. If he still manages to get on the couch, don't get into a confrontation with him. To get him off the couch, lure him off with food that he really likes.
Take him to the vet and have a full blood panel done, including thyroid panel. There could be something way out of whack that is contributing to this behavior. Ask about Buspirone. Buspirone is a medication that is sometimes used on dogs that have aggression issues. It is very important to use it in conjunction with behavior modification and obedience training, rather than as a solution all by itself.
While it's hard to say without seeing the dog, I will venture a guess that if he is physically healthy, he is using aggression as a way to rule the household. He is in control and he knows it. In order to stop it, you have to take back control, but you don't neccessarily have to do that with direct confrontation. You have a bigger brain and opposable thumbs; use them.
Lisa & Lucy, CGC, Wilderness Airscent
Western Oregon Search Dogs |
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Re: Please Help!
[Re: Ana Maria ]
#26518 - 12/08/2003 02:51 PM |
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Ana - We also know, that we are to be blamed, we spoiled him so much, we let him do what he wants, when he wants, he is a very needy dog, he needs constant attention 24 hours a day and we gave it to him when he required it... now I know this is wrong.
My reply - IMO You are worst kind of dog owner, You know you have a problem, You don't want anybody to fix it, You don't know how to fix it, and you know its your fault.
You love your dog but you have created a monster, you owe society something. If you don't take care of the dog society will, if you are afraid of your dog who will, or can control it. Now this is a Cocker Spainel a 30-55lbs dog, please.
Read some of the information on the forum this could cost you high insurance hikes, lost resources/Sued, injuried and dead people just because a dog owners like you thinks their dog is a baby.
Please get help for the dog out before someone get hurt, sometimes reality is all we have. If you can't fix this or won'tlet others fix it.
Realize, there are other Cockers puppies out there that don't have these problem, live and learn. Don't make the same mistake with the new dog or get a gold fish, not a Beta!!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Its time for some tough love.
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Re: Please Help!
[Re: Ana Maria ]
#26519 - 12/08/2003 03:39 PM |
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Ana Maria,
Now, you mention the muzzle.. there is no way we can put a muzzle on him, there is no way we can approach or touch him most of the times, we even thought there was something medically wrong with him, but no, he just gets like scared, I don't know. We also know, that we are to be blamed, we spoiled him so much, we let him do what he wants, when he wants, he is a very needy dog, he needs constant attention 24 hours a day and we gave it to him when he required it... now I know this is wrong.
What is the joy of having this dog-what benefits are you getting? You can't touch him, he bites, he is a menis to society and worst of all he could SERIOUSLY injury someone and there isn't a damn thing you would be able to do, you couldn't call him off (what if he went after a child!), he has absolutely ZERO respect for you because he is the Alpha he rules not you and without help you will never be able to get him to be a safe dog-even with help he may always test his bounders trying to regain his Alpha statues.
Ana Maria step back and read your post as if you don't own this dog. Would you want to own this dog, or go over to a friend/family members house that had a dog like this on there premises? Go for a walk and meet this dog on the sidewalk. I think NOT!
Putting this dog down is the safest thing in to do, sometimes we have to look past our SELFISH wants and do what is best for everyone involved-because from what you have said even if you do find a willing trainer it won't last because you are not willing to be stern-stop babying him and take the ALpha position, dog training is more about training the owner then the dog, are you trainable? Can you be tough and show him tough love, stick to your dogs and NEVER ever give him an inch even if you find a trainer?
A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself. -Josh Billings |
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Re: Please Help!
[Re: Ana Maria ]
#26520 - 12/08/2003 05:34 PM |
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Anna, The hardest decision you will have to make concerning this dog is to have the Vet put it down. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Reading your post and the replies of other members of the forum, only one option should be considered.
Then I'm saying what I would do in this situtation. Others will have different thoughts.
You are not the first person that has asked for help this this same type of problem. We have all
tried to do miracles without much success.
Take some time and really think about what could and will happen sooner or later.
Small dogs can do a lot of tissue damage to children, older people.
How would you be able to help this dog if it became sick or injured, I think not.
This will be a very hard decision that you make, as hard as they come.
Good Luck in whatever you decide!!
Butch Crabtree
kennel vom Avoyelles |
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Re: Please Help!
[Re: Ana Maria ]
#26521 - 12/08/2003 07:37 PM |
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Hi everybody, first of all I need to thank all of you for all the support, opinions, advice, etc. you have given me through this message board.
I want all of you to understand something, I have realized NOW that we are the ones to blame, I had dogs all my life, even Cocker Spaniels and I have never ever been in this situation before, I have always spoiled my dogs but I have never had a dog with such a temper like this one so I didn't do anything different this time... call me ignorant ifyou want, but obviously, I didn't want to create a monster ... I do realize now, that I am a bad dog owner, after trying to get help from every single available web-site, I learned a lot of things that I should not have done, so does my husband.. so this is not something I have done on purpose.
My husband has considered putting him down, but he knows it will be very hard for me, also, is not that he bites people and friends all the time, not at all... there is something that I still do not understand that makes him behave aggresively in some situations, when he is extremely tired for example is one. If he was a dog that can't socialize or that I could never take him out, or could never take him for grooming, etc., I will consider that possibility, but is not like that at all, he can be very loving and caring some times... I have explained the situations when he gets aggressive which of course are not every day.
I do want help, that's exactly why I had asked for help in this message board, I do realize how dangerous he can be some times for society, hopefully there are no children or old people around us and will not be, every thing that you guys have told me, I am going to start doing it, I have started already but I learned this today, not before. Nobody explained to mehow I was supposed to deal with him, not his vet, not his trainer... I know I have to change my attitude towards him and I know I have to start realizing that he is a dog not my baby and animals need discipline... He has no medical condition,we did all the tests, his vet suggested it could be disorder called BIPOLAR, but all his tests were fine and honestly to God, I think this is just behavior and that he bites because he knows this way he can control us.
So please, don't judge me for being ignorant on training dogs, I had no idea this could happen to normal, healthy dogs except to pitbuls or rotweillers, I am learning a lot and I would like to find some kind of professional help out there but if not, I believe if we start applying some discipline on him without confronting him, it will work.
Thanks again,
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Re: Please Help!
[Re: Ana Maria ]
#26522 - 12/09/2003 10:27 AM |
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Ana - I admire your dedication to the dog, you trully do love the animal too much. These are issues that should have been handled as a puppy, now the dog believes this is the way things should be. It is my personal opinion that you don't have the ability to change this dog behavior because he doesn't see you as the Alpha, he sees you as a threat to take his position and will fight you if you now try. If you get on its nerve it will bite you, and the bites will get vicous if you presence.
If you can't do the right thing. Then take the dog to a adoption center or animal welfare center. they will evaluate the dog and do the right thing. You are not equiped to handle a dog with this kind of problem. Quite frankly Ana, few trainers could turn this around in a week or two, it would take months to reverse years of running things. And the dog would not give in wothout a fight. Now there are some trainers that have that presence, that might make the dog give in. But when they brought him back to you the problem would still be there, because of your lack leadersip. I think your husband is right.
You have a sweetheart but misguided heart (problem no.1), but you can't handle this dog's problem.
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Re: Please Help!
[Re: Ana Maria ]
#26523 - 12/09/2003 11:54 AM |
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Don is right on, but finesses one thing: in reality, taking this dog to an adoption or breed rescue center is a death sentence. There are too many salvageable dogs out there for such people to be wasting their time on a dog that perhaps can't even be reformed, and whose very existence is a tremendous liability in both legal and moral terms.
Hard as it is, IMO, this dog should be put down. With love, in person (not abandoning him to strangers), and with full understanding of one's culpability in the death.
Been there, done that.
Dave Trowbridge
Boulder Creek, CA |
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