Hello everyone.

When I first got my pups, I was on this board every single day researching training methodology. I forgot that training is mostly for the owner. Something I'm beating myself up over now.

First of all, let me first endorse my love for this site. Everything that I'd learned here (and most of the posts I've read), have help turned both my pups into well-behaved, very social and positive dogs. Both were house-broken, we cured excitement peeing, no jumping up, and probably most importantly, we have a very loving defined hierarchy at home. They've finished at the top of both obedience classes we've attended (much to our pride).

But recently I screwed up. And I was wondering to what degree and what I may be able to do about it. Here is may situation.

I have a 13 month old GSD / fixed at 9 months. He always been very sweet, and has shown very very minimal aggression (only on occastion to his somewhat annoying little spitz sister when she tries to steal his stuff). And even then its only barking, never biting or chasing. Otherwise, he's never had a problem with any other dog.

The other day, I met my new neighbor on the street walking his (5 year old lab-mix) dog. I invited him onto my front yard for introductions. My dogs were waiting at the house and wanted to see what was going on (I don't let them approach or leave without my say-so). The new neighbor seemed very nice and very soft spoken. I asked him if his dog was friendly. He replied with a definitive "yes." So I called my pups and they came over. He told me he was going to take his dog off leash and trying to keep the air of good-will, I agreed. (yes, I'm beating myself over that even as I type it)

Well, you know the rest of the story before I finish it. My pups went over, sniffed the other dog, and the other dog went ballistic mauling my GSD. Poor GSD was overwhelmed having never met an unfriendly dog. I can still hear him yelping in my mind. My spunky Spitz jumped in and freed her brother. He ran back into the garage.

Only afterward did the person apologize profusely and tell me that his dog was a rescue and probably abused. And cited how he would "warm up", having been aggressive to others before and accepting them after time.

I went to the garage to check my GSD. He was physically fine (very tiny nick in the ear), but acting very timid. After having the owner put his dog on a leash, I recalled my GSD and had him sit slightly behind me. I wanted to show him that the situation was contained. I didn't want him to have his last memory of the confrontation be one of panic and running away. My GSD was hestitant, but complied. I had him sit for a moment next to me, and then released him to go home. My little spitz hung around to yell at the other dog (not aggressive herself, but obviously a lot harder to scare).

I excused myself and spent the rest of the day with my GSD. We did all his favorite things including going to see some of his dog friends (three in all). By the end of the day, he was acting like his old self. Me on the other hand am still a bit shaken.

So that's my story. My immediate question is, what do I do now so that my GSD won't be fearful of new dogs. I have not had him meet any until I get some feedback and advice. He's always been a wonderful host when we have other new dogs come over, I don't want that to change.

I know I screwed up. I even had a hard time sleeping that night wondering if I should have jumped in and saved him myself (it all happened so fast). Looking back at the dog aggression article, Ed CLEARLY writes:

"I will never gamble that a strange dog is going to be friendly with my puppy. Until I know the temperament of another dog and I am sure he will not attack my dog I have to deal with it my way."

So I'm the screwed up here. I don't want my dog to pay for it. I never wanted anything but pleasant experiences for my pups. Luckily, I hope that all the previous diligence will pay off. My GSD has been very well socialized with both dogs and people. He has met over 100 friendly dogs, and has many closed, good dog friends. I'm REALLY REALLY hoping that this will work to our favor (so he knows that not all new dogs are bad).

Since then, GSD has been pretty much his old self. But I won't know until I meet a new dog. His commands seem a wee-bit slower, bit I might be reading into anything out of the ordinary.

Uuggh. So if someone in this kind community can give me some advice on what I should do next. I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks Thanks!

David,
Well, first of all stop beating yourself up on this...! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You obviously have your dog's best interest in your heart, and it was just a mistake.

Hey, been there done that...!
http://leerburg.server294.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=000101

So far my dog (which as you can read in the linked thread, was also attacked) has shown no bad effects from her experience. She is older than your dog, which may make a difference, but take a wait and see attitude; your pup may just shake this off.

I would not expect however, that he will ever "warm up" to the attacker...that would be a bit much. Should that dog come around again, I would suggest you make it clear to your pup that you will protect him, ie, place yourself between him and the offender.

Thanks for writing back so fast!!

When do you think it would be alright for him to try and meet a new dog?

I'll obviously make sure that the dog is a friendly one.

Sooner? Later?

He seems fine with his "old pals".
David

Ann's right, beating yourself up won't take back what happened. And I do hope your pup gets over it quickly without any lasting effects.

But here's a question - why does he have to meet new dogs?

it sounds like your dog has been pretty well socialized, and you say he has a couple of other dogs that he gets along with and can romp and play, etc. - why not just teach him to ignore other dogs?

i see a lot of this anthropomorphic attitude that dogs need "to be friends" and go to "doggy daycare" and such, as if they were toddlers. I've been almost chased across parking lots by people whose "friendly labs" were dragging them to us "just to say hi" and watched the horrified look on their faces when i tell them there's a reason i turned and went the other direction in the first place, and that no, they don't need to meet. of course, their first question/assumption is that my GSD must be aggressive (not) - i guess i'm content to let them think that rather than try to explain dog dynamics to them.

you saw first hand – in all of 2 seconds – what can go wrong.

why take the chance?

Anyway, that's just my opinion.

I suppose how fast your dog recovers depends on him.

Your dog doesn't "need" to be reintroduced to the aggressor...but if this is a neighbor you may not have much choice in the matter.

As far as timing, I don't think it matters much;
I let a couple of weeks go by before I exposed my dog to another again, but that was only because of other time restraints.

I took her to Rescue sponsored fest where there was a demo of some working K9's; not normally a place where I would take my dog, but I had something to prove and there were lots of strange dogs around, all pets and all on leash and fortunately none that were aggressive.

I kept her well away from other dogs until she showed evidence of being a bit more curious to get closer. I let her take that lead on that...but did not get within "sniffing" distance of any strangers.

We walked around the fest about 30 minutes, and after she showed me that she had far more interest in smelling the bushes, grass, garbage cans and people than eyeing other dogs, left for the day.

We had a similar experience a few months ago with my then 16 month old. She was a bit defensive for a few days but I just gently corrected her behaviour and continued to work around other dogs (pretty much no with a sharp stare). She put on a SAR demo 20 minutes after the attack without a flaw.

She must train in the vicinity or her attacker (a bloodhound) and we are vigilant about making sure the bloodhound is put up before mine comes out (as the bloodhound was on lead and pulled owner off feet and dragged her to initiate the attack). Adrenaline is a wonderful thing...mine slipped her collar after we separaeted them and went back in to continue the fight and I snagged her legs, picked her up and threw all 56 lbs of her into the back of my SUV.

I can tell she has this dog pegged in her black book as she now hackles and has a low growl when she comes near our car but is basically neutral to other dogs -- quick warning bark but snaps out on "quiet" command. BTW, there were no warning signs of the impending fight and apparently bloodhounds can be unpredictable.

To me, the biggest thing I learned in the past is that what ever you feel goes down the lead and you have to force yourself to have confidence in encounters with strange dogs. Personallly, we don't nose to nose lets play stuff. I play with my dogs and they play with each other too. Other dogs, no.

I don't know exactly why but I have seen more puncture wounds / injuries between dogs within a family than in fights with strange dogs......assume there is more worth fighting for within a pack, and family dogs are often left alone unsupervised. My dogs play together but when I am gone I keep them apart.

Thanks everyone. I'm sure I'll stop beating myslf up, once I know I've done what CAN be done about my mistake.

Chris - Why does he have to meet new dogs?

First of all, thanks for your advice. I guess you're right in that he doesn't HAVE to. But its for the same reason we meet new people. He's a good dog and he enriches other dogs' lives; just as they enriches his. And you're right .. I'm anthropomorphizing my pup, but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. But after this incident, I'm certainly going to remember the basics I learned here. He certainly doesn't have to meet EVERY dog out there. Truth be told, he's not really interested in other dogs much. He never goes out of his way to meet a strange dog (unlike my spitz).

I shouldn't be taking any unnecessary risks. You're right about that.


Ann - Good advice. If he's not interested, then I won't push him.

I'm really hesitant about having my dog meet the aggressor again. I don't care if we never see him again. So I wasn't planning on it. We're talking the CGC this weekend - so being around other dogs is going to be necessary. I just wanted to know if maybe I should postpone it.

David C

Nancy -

I guess in your situation, you're luckier.

I just don't can't over that he started yelping - you're dog obviously is confident and established.

My pup is still a pup. And that's what worries me more. He's still developing.

I hate mean dogs.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

David C

Sorry -

That should read:

"I just can't gett over that he started yelping "

David,
The man told you his dog was friendly. I don't see this being your fault. As far as "meeting" new dogs, I agree it's not neccessary, but I do think that it's important that your dog be able to cope with other dogs being around, and that if some idiot manages to get their dog in your dog's face no matter how fast you run the other direction, your dog can at least do a quick nose touch without bloodshed while you turn him away and tell the other person to go take a hike. Good news is, since dogs don't generalize well, he may not even generalize this experience to include ALL new dogs, but may specifically remember THAT dog, or at worst, dogs that resemble THAT dog. As far as meeting new dogs, give him a few days for his adrenaline surge to subside. Stress hormones can stay in the blood stream for a while, and this can affect behavior. Good luck on your CGC!