Have read other posts with similar issue. Here's my issue at the moment. I have a 2 year old Golden Retreiver mix who is a well mannered dog around the house with the whole family including my 8, 10 and 12 year old children. He is excellent with all humans, just very friendly. On the other hand he is very uptight around other dogs and if that other dog is the least bit threatening then my dog will attack him. When we got him at 4mos. old we took him to puppy basic obedience training and then the next level after that and he did seemingly very well. He was neutered at about 5mos.

A couple months back he broke away from my wife while walking on the leash and and bit another dog who needed stitches. We paid the vet bills and the dog has healed nicely. After this incident which was reported to the dog officer we hired a dog trainer who came to the house. He was not effective and spent most of the time discussing transcendental meditation. Now just last week our dog ran right through our electric fence (we think the battery was weak) after a dog who walks by our house with his owner every day. That dog needed multiple stitches. We paid the vet bills and the owner says that she and the dog will be fine. This incident was also reported to the dog officer, so now we are on our last chance. Strike three and he is labeled a vicious dog and you go to dog court where the judge can order anything up to putting the dog down. I know this is not the dog's fault, this my wife and I's fault and we have to deal with this problem.

The most recent incident, the dog's owner was scratched on the leg. Not sure who scratched her...could have been our dog or hers but the dog officer doesn't care and he has ordered our dog to be quarentined for 10 days. When I called the woman to express my apologies and check on her well being she said she was fine and it was nothing but a scratch.

Our dog is not this way with all dogs all the time, but it does seem that he acts this way more with my wife than with me. For instance, I walked him last night and a neighbors 6lb yorkshire terrier came screaming into the street and began nipping at my dogs ankles, I commanded him to sit and stay and he just watched as this dog circled him berating him, he didn't react at all. Last night he had a vet appt. which I brought him to, there were three pure bred Goldens all with one owner in the waiting room who were cantankerous and growling at my dog who I had commanded to sit and stay...he didn't budge even though these dogs were very agitated.

I'm really at a cross roads because my family loves this dog but I'm wondering if I should look to re-home him because of the "short leash" he is now on with my towns dog officer? If we fail him again and he hurts another dog anything is possible and he could be ordered to be put down.

We are meeting a dog trainer today who is going to evaluate the dog and determine if she can help. She comes highly recommended from a friend who has used her in the past. If she thinks she can help she would likely take him for 2-3 weeks in a board and train situation. She has said she can't train the dog to like other dogs but she can train the dog to avoid confrontational situations.

I want to do the right thing for this dog. I know this is my responsibility. I also want to do the right thing for my family who will be devastated if we have to give him away. I hope the trainer today can help. Even if she can help and he comes back with a new attitude about other dogs I'm wondering if it wouldn't be best for the dog to re-home him because of that "short leash" he is now on.

I would welcome and appreciate any rational and experienced advice. Nobody feels worse than I do about this, I have beaten my self up enough about the whole situation and have had many sleepless nights.

"I know this is not the dog's fault, this my wife and I's fault and we have to deal with this problem."

You're right. The instances you mention are management problems. "Broke away." "Ran through electric fence." Your fault.

I'd clean up my containment protocol immediately. If any family member cannot hold onto the dog, that person does not walk the dog. JMO!

Meanwhile I'd work on desensitizing; this is a long haul, and not a quick fix. It needs to be done, though, and it's satisfying work, too.

A trainer should reiterate to you that this dog cannot be allowed to run around loose and to teach you something about bulletproof basic ob.

How much training does this dog get? How often, what kind? How much do you know about desensitizing?

Again, though, this sounds like #1, containment errors: big ones. #2, basic ob. And I'd start immediately with that bulletproof basic ob as well as desensitizing (which starts at home, no distractions, with focus and basic ob).

The board-and-train idea for this is, IMHO, absolutely terrible. Flooding a reactive dog is not the way to go, again IMO. I think you owe this dog more than that.

"she can train the dog to avoid confrontational situations" Really? How? (To do it in two weeks, I think you will want the details... )

That's your job, to avoid confrontational situations for him, not the dog's.

I hope that you plan to ask for details about such work is accomplished. And my first question would be "Can we come first and watch you work there with other dogs on the same kind of issue?" *

I hope you wanted blunt and frank. I cannot imagine any good coming from shuttling this dog off to be flooded with his reactivity trigger. And my mental pictures (based on experience) of how such work is accomplished in a couple of weeks makes me cringe. Again, all JMO.


eta
Now just last week our dog ran right through our electric fence (we think the battery was weak)

Electric fences are notorious for this. IMO, you cannot (ever) rely on the electric fence with this dog again. Others may disagree.

We get a lot of posts about dogs streaking through it after squirrels, etc., weak battery or not.



*To be clear, I would not even consider this board-and-train thing. I'm suggesting that you get details so you will know first-hand exactly why I think it's a terrible idea.



Edited by Connie Sutherland (02/15/2011 11:03 AM)
Edit reason: asterisk info added

Tom,

Control and contain the dog. He sounds like a nice guy whose only problem is that he just doesn't like other dogs, or is at best unpredictable around them. Plus I'm guessing that like most young goldens he is strong and energetic. Both the incidents you describe resulted from the dog not being contained or controlled. So don't rely on on electric fence to contain him, get a better leash and/or collar (how did he he manage to "break away" from your wife while out walking?) and keep him out of situations where he can get into trouble. You could spend a lot of time and money trying to train him out of this, but frankly I think the simplest immediate solution is just keep him under better control.

I do sympathize. My previous GSD was complete gentleman in every respect, rock solid with kids, fine with our other dogs, gentle with puppies and submissive female dogs, but the moment there was a hint of challenge from another male or a dominant female he turned into Cujo. We had a fine life together for years - I just got into the habit of making sure he did not interact inappropriately with other dogs by not giving him the chance.

Edited to add that Connie posted while I was writing this, but I second what she said about you need to fix this, not a hired trainer.

Well, Sarah, we posted together. I could have saved my effort, since you said it better and shorter.

"Both the incidents you describe resulted from the dog not being contained or controlled. So don't rely on on electric fence to contain him, get a better leash and/or collar (how did he he manage to "break away" from your wife while out walking?) and keep him out of situations where he can get into trouble. You could spend a lot of time and money trying to train him out of this, but frankly I think the simplest immediate solution is just keep him under better control."

 Quote: tom gardiner

I'm really at a cross roads because my family loves this dog but I'm wondering if I should look to re-home him because of the "short leash" he is now on with my towns dog officer? If we fail him again and he hurts another dog anything is possible and he could be ordered to be put down

Your dog will not lose its "dangerous dog" status by being rehomed to another town. The "short leash" and your liability will still apply in many states. I would not go this route without checking with an attorney.

I agree with Sarah and Connie; this is your responsibility and the fact that sometimes he's ok around other dogs does not warrant ever giving him a chance to attack another dog. I would have muzzled him going into the vets.

I would not send him away for training either. A trainer is an excellent idea but you need to find one who will coach you to accomplish the training.

Where do you live? Maybe someone can suggest a good source in your area. Good luck! This pup sounds like a good dog and there should be no reason you can't have a long happy life together if you commit to keeping him from harm's way.

Tom,

I too have a dog who is aggresive to other dogs, especially when on leash.
Moe is our St. Bernard who, when on lead will try to attack any dog near him. We tried a variety of things to correct this behavior. He is totally fine when off leash, or to other dogs in my house.

I became so stressed about the situation and thinking about what could happen.

Our solution: Fenced in our yard with 6ft chain link on the woody side and stockade in the front.
Result: Much happier dog and family.
This might not be the solution for you, but this is what works for us and I know how you feel. You don't want to put your dog into a situation that can hurt others and will end with him paying the ultimate price.

Yes, of course containment is the #1 priority. We have a chain link fence all around our back yard, no issues there. Out front we had the electric fence. He (the dog) was only allowed out front if I or my wife were out there also, never unsupervised. We thought we had containment covered. Going forward we will not have him out front unless he is on a leash, despite having the electric fence. How did the dog break away from my wife you ask? He bolted, she lost her footing and she hit the ground, and the leash was pulled from her hand. Simple as that. It not like we let this dog run wild and free, quite the contrary.

Connie, its clear you don't recommend the board to train. Why not? I just want to learn, I'm no dog whisperer, I need advice. How will getting details from the trainer let me know why you think its such a bad idea? Seems to me the trainer is going to tell me all thats right about her process...no?

I know its my job to keep him from confrontational situations, what I meant previously is that we should be able to walk him down the street without him getting so afraid and nervous that he feels like his only solution is to lash out.

Sarah, with regard to your previous GSD...was there no way to work with him so that he didn't react that way to other males? Or is that the type of thing that is so imprinted that the behavior can't be modified?

Like I said I'm no dog whisperer but my gut feeling is that he is acting out of fear and that his reaction when he is in fear is that he lashes out. I just dont think he knows what the appropriate reaction is and he is making a decision to lash out, and of course that is a bad decision. I was hoping to be able to train this dog that not all other dogs are threats and and to rely on his master to take care of any threats. I guess bottom line this is what I really want for this dog, and I was hoping a qualified trainer could assist me with this. I'm getting the feeling from the members here that this may not be possible.

Others will have better explanations on why NOT to board and train, but for me personally I could never do it because this would be my worst nightmare.

http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/2010/12/nitros-law/

and it is def not the only case out there. I had this happen to a friends dog who when she showed up out of the blue to visit, the dog was beaten and weak. She took him straight home and he was never the same.

Board and train for two weeks is looking for a quick fix, which could in my opinion actually make the situation worse long term. I would do a search for desensitizing. Good luck.

He bolted, she lost her footing and she hit the ground, and the leash was pulled from her hand. Simple as that. It not like we let this dog run wild and free, quite the contrary.

No one thought you were.


Connie, its clear you don't recommend the board to train. Why not? I just want to learn, I'm no dog whisperer, I need advice. How will getting details from the trainer let me know why you think its such a bad idea? Seems to me the trainer is going to tell me all thats right about her process...no?

I will be very interested in the response when you ask if you can go watch work with dogs who have the same issue, several times, before deciding. Yes, you will hear all that's right, but you can also ask for nuts-n-bolts. And you certainly do not have to decide on the spot, at the interview.

My opinion (JMO!) is that YOU need to be involved in the training, and (if you get a trainer) that you also need to supervise what happens to your dog in a stranger's hands. IMO and IME, the only way to "teach the dog to avoid confrontation situations in two weeks" is not anything I will ever send my dog to have done. The very least that I believe will happen is flooding, and this is not the way I think desensitizing is best done. Flooding a fearful dog is number 12 on my list of 5 good methods for dialing back the fearful dog's reactivity. Prove me wrong, though, when you interview the trainer. I want to hear about a two-week desensitizing process that does not involve a harsh aversive and/or flooding.


.... we should be able to walk him down the street without him getting so afraid and nervous that he feels like his only solution is to lash out.

Absolutely. Desensitizing work started asap. I asked several questions: What ob training is done now? How much, how often? How much do you know about desensitizing? This is all work that begins in distraction-free areas (at home, usually) and only gradually goes "on the road." This board has a ton of desensitizing info. And a good positive trainer can help a lot if you have no marker experience or don't know how to bulletproof your basic ob.


Like I said I'm no dog whisperer but my gut feeling is that he is acting out of fear and that his reaction when he is in fear is that he lashes out. I just dont think he knows what the appropriate reaction is and he is making a decision to lash out, and of course that is a bad decision.

This is what desensitizing does: dials back the dog's reactivity. It is not a two-week job.


I was hoping to be able to train this dog that not all other dogs are threats and and to rely on his master to take care of any threats.

You can.



I'm getting the feeling from the members here that this may not be possible.

Nope. Not at all.



eta

I'm on your side! I want you to have what you want! In fact, this (aggression, reactivity, fearfulness) is a big part of my work with dogs.

But I think the bad events so far have been management issues, that the dog has had no desensitizing work at all, that going away for two weeks out of your sight for this is a bad plan, and that a trainer can help you a lot better with upbeat basic ob. I asked several questions so we could help you get this in place. Nothing was meant to say "you can't do this." Absolutely the opposite! You CAN do this.



Edited by Connie Sutherland (02/15/2011 03:47 PM)
Edit reason: eta

PS

Success with dog reactivity:

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=253411&Searchpage=2&Main=24388&Words=desensitize&topic=0&Search=true

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/251710/page/0/fpart/3