I am single-handling our two doggies for another week and yesterday I just lost it with frustration. I feel bad for it, and I don't even know if what I did was actually what the dogs needed or if I was over the line with my corrections. For the time being they are back to being quiet and calm, but we have a whole day to get through.

The strange part is that I seem to be getting better attention from Jethro and I wonder if my correction was what he has been needing. Maybe I have not been getting my message through because I wasn't correcting to the right level. Let's face it, my arms and shoulders are half the size of my husband's. Our letter carrier told me out on the walk that she had observed that Jethro is more reactive with me on the other end of the leash. I fear I coddle the dogs too much even though I do way more training with them, and they are better behaved in some respects with me because of that.

I'm working with two cases, with different needs, but somewhat similar issues: Yes, I am the boss, and yes, you are going to follow me, and no, you are not going to boss me around with your anxious barking or reactive behaviour.

If I am getting tired of giving out endless streams of treats and clicks I wonder if I am doing something wrong. If I am relenting and letting dogs up on furniture and then finding I have more separation anxiety (Skipper) and crate aversion (Jethro) are the two phenomena related? For now we are back to no dogs on furniture. But it isn't that simple, I want to give Jethro a platform for practicing Look at That and Watch from the livingroom window to start reducing his barking reactions to life on the street. The couch is perfect, in that he can watch, and then, when he puts himself in a Down on the couch, he can desensitize to the sound and movement around him (under supervision, of course) while he naps. It replicates the front porch, which is another area that we are working these exercises on. As summer comes, that front porch is a highly desired napping space. For now I have penned off the coveted sunny corner and they will not be allowed in without my permission and under active supervision for training purposes. Skipper is no longer allowed to go where Jethro cannot go.

UPDATE I no longer use 'Crate' as it has aversive associations for Jethro. For now it has no name, but it is associated with warm breakfast sausage treats (which are only given in that space). I actually got Jethro to volunteer to go in this morning, and Sit and Down. And Skipper was lying quietly in his crate with the door shut while I worked on Jethro. A little progress.

I'm working hard to catch Jethro before his hackles go up. Once his hackles are up, its too late for Look at That or Watch. This morning I tried Back, and just forced him to take steps backward with the leash. It took a few tries, especially with a cat sitting on the sidewalk not 20' away, but Jethro did back up and then turned to look at me Click Treat and the spell was broken, even though he continued to look at the cat. His hackles were down and that was all I was asking for in that situation.

 Quote: Jenny

I'm working hard to catch Jethro before his hackles go up. Once his hackles are up, its too late for Look at That or Watch. This morning I tried Back, and just forced him to take steps backward with the leash. It took a few tries, especially with a cat sitting on the sidewalk not 20' away, but Jethro did back up and then turned to look at me Click Treat and the spell was broken, even though he continued to look at the cat. His hackles were down and that was all I was asking for in that situation.

Jenny, it sounds like you are really working hard with your two, and putting a lot of thought into what you are trying to accomplish.

I just wanted to comment about the hackling. (Chula is a big hackler also)
It is a completely involuntary response on the part of the dog and can mean many things in addition to aggression, like excitement (prey drive) or being unsure in a new situation. In and of itself, it's not something that you can 'train' Jethro not to do. The goal should be focus on you, and don't worry about the hackles if he's focusing on you.

I'm unsure from your post if you are allowing him to lay on the sofa by the window or not. If yes, seems like a great place to do some desensitizing training with him. I might even set up a scenario with a helpful friend or neighbor who would follow your intrsuctions and walk by from a distance far enough away that he has little or no reaction, and then gradually decrease the distance to the window. (Cell phones are great in this situation because you can control immediately how close the person gets)

Hi Lynne, that is a great idea. Yes, I am letting him lie there basking in the sun. It is really hard to catch him for the things that he is going to bark at, or just ignore. I have his 'remote' control leash - a long training line that lets him know that I am still attached and paying attention.

I do understand the hackles are an indicator of *some* kind of excitement. What I notice with Jethro is that if his hackles are up, irregardless of the reason, he is brain is also funneling into a very narrow range of focus. When his hackles have gone down I know he has let go of the prey, interloper, or very interesting smell enough to team up with me again.

I love your idea of getting someone to assist me in a desensitizing session. I think Jethro would really start to get the idea, rather than both of us coping with random events, mostly after the fact.

A minor sausage victory. Both doggies got up to stretch and incidentally that involved going into the kennel room to sniff around and make sure they weren't missing anything.

First thing I noted, before reading post, was dog on furniture;
with that said, do you use a prong collar?

Yes, I use a prong collar in some of his training. I don't make him wear it in the house because it is uncomfortable for sleeping. But now that you mention it, it might be a good idea for this particular training activity, even though it does take place in the house. Hmmm. Good point.

I know the couch is a technical difficulty. I'm trying to think of a way to put a low platform there, so he can observe without standing up on the windowsills. So far he is only allowed up there by invitation. But it probably adds confusion to his understanding of what is allowed and what is off limits.

I haven't followed your threads enough to maybe give advice;
but just wanted to note, that sometimes, & i have noted it with my dog,
but what we "view" & what is a dog's view, well, can be Big dif!

I guess what I am trying to say via message board, is,
what you may call "observe" on the dog's part, can also turn into obsession, on the dog's part, esp when bored, under exercised, ect.

I noted this with my dog, although I taught her to ignore alot as a pup, & thus nixed alot of problems;
she started becoming obsessive about watching my trash container at nite, out her "window" in the breezeway, for scavaging critters.
This was a mix of obsessive, caused by boredom initially, behavior. Accentuated with High Prey drive!
She was finding a Job to Do!

Also, yes, prong training collars are just that, great training tools, esp for those of us with less body strength!

As you know from previous replys and PMs Jenny, I can relate...the ancedote about Jethro and the cat somewhat tells me that you actually ARE making progress -I think sometimes this kind of work with reactivity is a "two steps forward/one back" effort...here's something I realized/learned recently though -just for what it's worth..
I've also been working 'sub threshold' for quite a while now with progress...Shiva can now participate in group OB classes in a composed manner...she can pass dogs losing it behind fences and not answer back...she can retain a down stay around other dogs in the vet parking lot and even tolerate off leash dogs running up -BUT she can still try and snark if a dog passes too closely while walking...
I watched Ed closely on the Dominant Dog video. In it, he speaks clearly on corrections for 'ranky', reactive, pack behavior. Since Shiva has certainly demonstrated that she knows what is expected per the above, I need to get on top of the corrections the minute she starts to stiffen...and then, as Ed pointed out, NOT praise after such corrections.
So for what it's worth -I think my timing was off. I found it important (again, once you know 110% that the dog knows that you don't agree with the posturing or reacting) to correct (even mildly) at the slightest intensity and not wait until a snark or yip occurred. Then march on...and a bit later for the "look" and praise. I was joining those two activities too closely, the correction, then a redirect, then praise...and I just think that quick sequence was too sophisticated for her to parse through -she's a bulldog after all!
She's such a lovely affectionate dog -I'm with you -I think I was letting my complete love for her color my handling of this. Once I decided -really decided -that she knew better and was being a brat -my leadership could win out. I've noticed a difference already although she is still a work in progress as a 1-yr-old untrained adolescent....hang in there Jenny -I give you all the support and credit in the world for your dedicated work with your dogs...

I think somewhere also in Ed's Dominant Dog & Pack Structure video's is the mention of not letting dogs on the funiture?

I guess I question why you want the "observe" out the window? Is it for training to ignore?

In which case I would focus on behavior when you were out & about, or on leash, with prong collar; Teaching Ignore, which would include not to focus out the window, Ignore!

 Quote: Jenny Arntzen

I actually got Jethro to volunteer to go in this morning, and Sit and Down.

Why are you asking for obedience in the crate?

Here is my thinking about the window and the street and the front porch, for that matter. I'm enacting Leslie McDevitt's approach, that it is unrealistic to ask a dog to completely ignore the environment it is in, it sets up an internal conflict in the dog because it is connected to the environment through its senses and to ask it to ignore those senses and only focus on me continuously is setting us both up for failure. Hence the Look at That: It is okay to look at something, and then look back at me. Being in relationship with me includes being able to check out the environment (in appropriate ways). It involves a close reading of the dog, because I need to have a sense of Jethro's thresholds and his interests, to help him learn to make new choices under exciting circumstances.

Jethro is a livestock guardian breed. One of his great satisfactions is to Watch, to sit quietly and observe what is going on. He is getting much better at this activity, that is, he will sit and Watch quietly even as an unleashed dog comes up to greet, only leaving his position when I say, Sniff Time! (not 100% but improving).

I have been struggling with trying to get him to ignore life outside the house for many, many months. He senses things before I do, and he hasn't had any self control to identify what is important and what is routine. My theory is giving him this opportunity to become familiar with day to day activities will help him understand what I want from him: Watch and Quiet as people and dogs pass by on the sidewalk outside. Instead of constantly removing him to a quiet back room, which he was becoming aversive to.

This is a form of desensitizing, but not ignoring. It is paying attention and choosing not to react because there is something more rewarding in turning back to me, or simply having my approval.

Honestly folks, I am trying different things to see if we can make some headway. For months I kept him in his crate and would only let him out as long as he didn't react. It didn't stop him from reacting, it made him react less because he basically lived in his crate. He was getting aversive to his crate and I was getting tired of not making progress on the reactivity.

We have made a lot of progress on his reactivity out on the street, in parks, on the trail and at the beach. In fact I regularly get comments on how well behaved my dogs are (if only they knew!). I thought I would try bringing the technique inside and see if we could make a dent.

I've been using obedience in the crate with Skipper, because he had huge anxiety and when he had something to do - Sit, Down, Wait - he has been able to build up some tolerance (seconds at a time) for having the crate door shut. I guess I got in the habit because for me and Jethro, practicing Sits and Downs is a way that we work together to synch up our energies. We do those exercises just about everywhere to bring our anxiety levels down and achieve a more calm demeanor. We were practicing on building calm crate behaviour in the soft crates and I realized Skipper and Jethro were actually building their Wait (as a long Down) as we practiced zipping, unzipping, and me moving away or simply sitting there with the zippers fully closed and them staying calm.

In the wire crate this morning, when he was responsive enough to Sit and Down, it showed me that he was within a learning zone, neither shut down nor too anxious about being in the crate.

Gosh! Thanks for the questions. There aren't very many people that I get to talk this through with!

As has been mentioned before, Jethro barks and growls for many different reasons. He has quite a wide vocabulary. Sometimes he just needs me to take a look and say, Yup, you're right. There is a dog out there and we don't have to worry about it. Other times, he needs to hear me say, "No Jethro, that level of reactivity is unwanted and I want it to stop right now!" As Connie says, "Its only the lawn guy".