Hello everyone,

This is my first post here, and I'm hoping to get some tips from the community for my puppy.

I purchased the "For the new puppy" DVD set and it arrived 2 days ago (Monday). I brought my puppy home last Friday, just shy of 8 weeks old. As soon as the DVDs arrived I began watching the pack structure DVD and began Ishi's formal crate training that evening.

I'm concerned by some apparent contradictions between the free ebooks on leerburg.com, the pack structure DVD, and the "8 weeks to 8 months" DVD. I'm sure most of these issues come from the evolution of the "leerburg method", but I'm more than a little concerned about giving my puppy mixed signals; please help me sort all of this out.

Ishi is a puppy from a highly decorated Sch lineage and has a high prey drive, very willing to please, and very intelligent. At this point he is calm and submissive in his crate 90% of the time, but he occasionally starts whining when I'm out of sight. I take him out to walk 2-3 times per day, and I take him out to potty regularly. I've been enforcing "no coming out of crate until you're calm and sitting." He's highly receptive to this - sometimes his puppy joy takes over but he seems to make connections easily, and he seems eager to take instruction.

Now, according to the pack structure DVD and ebook, crate should be his sole existence outside of walks and potty until he is calm and submissive in the crate. However, the "8 weeks to 8 months" DVD has 8 week old puppies playing in exercise pens. Ishi desperately wants to play with me and it's breaking my heart to stay aloof and not play. I worry that I'll destroy his prey drive, and I worry that he'll lose respect for his leader that won't interact with him. So, my first questions are:

1) At what point can I bring him out to play in the yard or in the ex pen?

2) I've seen no visual examples of "calm and submissive in the crate." What percentage of the time should he be at this state before I move on from crate / pack training? When he *never* whines unless he needs to go potty? He definitely sees crate as a safe place, and is 90% of the time content and submissive there. He sits calmly while I open the crate and put on his collar.

These are my main concerns, and I'd like to find a solution as quickly as possible, even if the solution is to continue to be aloof and not play with him. I don't want to damage my puppy.

I have a few other questions that are somewhat lower priority.

3) Where should my puppy walk when we go out to walk? He seems to prefer staying near my feet on my right side. I stumble over him unintentionally, but he rarely goes out front. Is this a sign of submission, insecurity, or something else? Do puppies see "leading the walk" as dominance? How can I encourage him to walk where my feet are not? Almost always, if I stop walking, he plops down across one of my feet and/or starts chewing on my shoes.

4) How am I to teach him to sit calmly when I open the door if I'm not supposed to interact with him during the pack training phase? I've limited my communication to simply removing my hand from the crate if he starts jumping or whining.

5) Toys - he's teething, but the pack structure DVD and ebook communicate "no toys" very strongly. On the other hand, "8 weeks to 8 months" has 8 week puppies in ex pens overflowing with toys. He needs to be able to chew on something, right? How do I reconcile these inconsistencies?

6) My significant other lives with me, and the first time we tried to take Ishi out for a walk together he was so focused on me that Allison was unable to hold his lead. He would run towards me, run around her legs, and completely lost interest in anything except getting to me. In response to this I decided to lower the distraction level by only one of us taking him out to walk or potty. Is there anything else I can do at this point?

I'm familiar with marker training and when he first came home we immediately started charging 'yes'. This was suspended when he started his pack training in the crate, based on the "Establishing pack structure" directive to isolate, remain aloof, and not play with the puppy.

I do apologize for the length of this post. I would not be imposing on the community but I'm extremely concerned about permanently damaging him in this phase of his life. Thank you in advance!

Regards,
Matthew

Welcome to the forum Matthew!

The Pack Structure really is referring to how to manage adult dogs, not puppies! Relax and enjoy your little guy!!!

This doesn't mean you don't start introducing destired behavior to come out of the crate or xpen; you can calmly wait till you get a sit and then immediately open the door.

Regarding toys - YES - your pup can have toys. "No toys" laying around is for adult dogs; you won't leave things out as he matures since you want to teach him the best part of toys in the interaction of the toy and YOU.

When out of the crate you can keep this little guy teathered to you at all times. Use the crate for naps and when it is not convenient for him to be teathered to you. It sounds like you know this, but puppies need to get out of the crate for potty breaks on a regular schedule, and definitely take him outside immediately after naps, after playtimes, after eating/drinking and before putting him in for a nap. (Sounds like you will be outside a lot, doesn't it?? hehehehe).

I'd keep walks short and relaxed at 8.5 weeks and not expect/ask too much right now. Have you watched any of the free streaming videos by Michael Ellis? They are AWESOME and give some good ideas on how to begin shaping/luring behaviors you want.


What are your plans for this little guy? Will you be working in Schutzhund?

Again, welcome, and relax, you really can play with this pup.

 Quote: matthew thornhil

4) How am I to teach him to sit calmly when I open the door if I'm not supposed to interact with him during the pack training phase? I've limited my communication to simply removing my hand from the crate if he starts jumping or whining.

This is fine. Stand there calmly till he sits then immediately open the door. Taking your hand away if he moves is fine. Using no voice right now is probably good since that will just "amp" him up a bit. Calm, no rushing (assuming he isn't late for a potty break!). The minute his little butt hits the floor, open the door. (You and also say "yes!" and give him a treat.)

Phew, that's a load off. Thank you for your response. He's such a sweet puppy.

I was interested in Schutzhund until I started reading about the problems with politics and corruption. That was enough to send me in another direction - I'm planning on Mondio Ring at this point. I'll be picking up the working puppy DVD one of these days soon, and I'm fortunate enough to have enough land to facilitate the training equipment. Ishi is going to have a very happy life, and I understand the importance of clearly defined leadership in attaining that. I do not believe I have any trouble establishing myself as a confident, firm, and fair leader, nor do I believe he wants to challenge me for the role.

Right now all I can think about is getting home from work to play with him.

*edit* I'll certainly check out the Ellis videos now. I was impressed with the clips I saw with him, but wasn't sure I should be introducing further training until after pack groundwork.

All dog sports have politics and corruption.
Just the nature of the beast.

You will find "Politics and Corruption" in about anything you do.

Enjoy your puppy time and concentrate on building your bond. All that 'Pack' stuff will follow from that. He wants to be with you. Use that --- make being with you the funnest thing ever. With my last puppy, I hand fed her for several months. Any time we went outside was play time. Now, several judges have commented on how much fun she has and the enthusiasm she shows doing the trial routines. Nikki is now SchH3.

I really wish I had been smart enough to ignore some of the training advice I recieved with my first dog.

If you are interesting in joining a local Schutzhund club the USA, DVG, and WDA national websites have listings of clubs in the various states. USA is by far the most active with several hundred trials, shows and helper training seminars each year. WDA is more oriented to the show folks and tends to have more conformation shows than USA.

Right now, joining USA is kind of free. Several vendors have teamed up for a membership drive and will donate gift certificates and dog stuff of a value that covers your first year's dues.

With any of the protection sports having a good helper and mentor a key to your success.