from http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=329049#Post329049


"Do you ever notice how in a shelter most dogs are jumping onto the bars of their kennels, wanting to go with you.

At adoption fairs most dogs seem to be content sitting in their crates, not so eager to go out meet new people.

A lot of these fosters are very reluctant to take a walk with a potential adopter."




I like Ana's question.

My experience is heavier on the rescue end.

What if eagerness to jump at the bars of the kennel and to try hard to attract the notice of the humans were linked more to eagerness (even desperation) for more attention than most shelters can possibly provide for each individual dog? (What if the dog recognizes the human as a potential ticket out of there? I'm not positive about this conception .... might be humanizing ... but the attention theory is plenty for this post.)

That is, what if the fair dog who sits in his crate and doesn't really care about the passersby has a good life in the foster home and no particular need for attention from strangers?

This seems very possible to me.

If so, of course we don't resolve it by withholding from the dog something that he is then desperate to beg for from strangers.

But why can't we teach a "meet" command on our fostering path? In fact, think of what else we could do with such a command: a dog might even trot over to the squatting stranger and offer a paw to be shaken.

I know weekends are slow here, and in fact I'm leaving for dog stuff happening at 3:30 (in a couple of minutes), but I would love to hear others' thoughts on this.

I think that Ana's observation was very interesting. I had to think about it a lot before I realized that maybe I had to invert the two scenarios and change which one I was calling desirable -- and how I could then change the "shopability" of the dog who was comfortable in his foster home, and socialized, but just not particularly interested in strangers in that "Look at me! Me! Me!" way.

One thing I taught Drift when working for CGC and TDI was "go see." This is giving permission to go and visit a stranger. It's so very easy to teach, and I think that having the dog calmly approach a potential adopter would increase the dog's chances of getting adopted.

While Drift was wonderfully socialized and friendly, she still required the permission from me (her leader) to go and meet people that were not of her pack. Maybe foster dogs need that permission as well... they don't know they are in the foster home on a temporary basis.. they think it's HOME, and the foster parent is the pack leader.

Just a thought.

--Kel

 Quote: kelly

One thing I taught Drift when working for CGC and TDI was "go see." This is giving permission to go and visit a stranger. It's so very easy to teach, and I think that having the dog calmly approach a potential adopter would increase the dog's chances of getting adopted.

While Drift was wonderfully socialized and friendly, she still required the permission from me (her leader) to go and meet people that were not of her pack. Maybe foster dogs need that permission as well... they don't know they are in the foster home on a temporary basis.. they think it's HOME, and the foster parent is the pack leader.

Just a thought.

--Kel

A good thought! I hope we get lots on this topic. I'm glad Ana raised the question; it certainly made me start thinking.

And yes, why would a foster dog NOT need/look for/wait for the command/permission from his pack leader to run off to a stranger? I'm thinking that most foster homes have other dogs in them, too, and that SOP wouldn't be "Go! Run to whoever you want and beg them to take you."

But we can get around this.

Great topic, Connie and Ana. It's something I want to spend some time thinking about.

I also taught my TDI dog the "go visit" command. I had to put it on command, or he would not have approached strangers. He's naturally reserved, and I think this is common.

I have never fostered, but I have adopted and done plenty of shelter volunteering. I find dogs that rush their kennels in shelters begging for attention, barking and jumping, intimidate a lot of would-be adopters, especially if it's a large dog. They tend to write off that dog immediately as unmanageable or too much work. I've seen it time and time again.

Quietly polite dogs, especially those with a cute trick, are much more likely to be considered by the average family.

 Quote: Meredith Hamilton

... I have never fostered, but I have adopted and done plenty of shelter volunteering. I find dogs that rush their kennels in shelters begging for attention, barking and jumping, intimidate a lot of would-be adopters, especially if it's a large dog. They tend to write off that dog immediately as unmanageable or too much work. I've seen it time and time again.

Quietly polite dogs, especially those with a cute trick, are much more likely to be considered by the average family.

I'm very appreciative of this train of thought, too, and I'm embarrassed that I never sat down and thought it through until Ana's post.

I too see this as applicable to both shelter and foster work.

 Quote: meredith hamilton

I find dogs that rush their kennels in shelters begging for attention, barking and jumping, intimidate a lot of would-be adopters, especially if it's a large dog. They tend to write off that dog immediately as unmanageable or too much work. I've seen it time and time again.

I agree and that's really sad. My beloved Mokie was a death row dog in a very chaotic and impersonal dog pound when I found her. She was jumping on the door of her run begging for attention. Luckily, I was able to see the dog behind the desperation and took her home. She NEVER jumped in my house.

I wish potential adopters could understand that the "crazy jumping and barking" dog they see at the shelter, is not necessarily what the dog will be like in a calm and loving home environment.

What a great topic! Thor has a "FRIEND" command which sad to say I don't know why or how I taught it but it sure comes in handy now when his senses are no longer 100% so he is not startled by an oncoming dog or person. I believe I introduced the command to basically let him know I was aware of someone approaching and I was ok with it which was his signal to be ok with it too and open to approach if it should happen.

I have never fostered a dog but have been involved in GSD rescue as a transporter. My involvement is short term and TIME constrained. I unfortunately don't have the option of waiting for the dog to become comfortable; I am generally picking up from a shelter and bringing him/her to intake at the Vet's. I have had transports as long as a 3 hour drive....endless to a dog who has never been introduced to a car before.

My approach is opposite Connie and CJ's I move from the shelter to the parking lot at a very fast militant pace; I am armed with smelly, fatty completely unhealthy but mouth watering treats. I sing (poor pups) and move back and forth at a pace that prohibits the dog from thinking. At the first sign of fatigue I slow down to give the dog a chance to relieve himself and begin tossing treats and saying "what's that?" Leading him to it and if he doesn't eat it right away move away, and toss another moving away again if he doesn't eat it. Something about food on the ground makes them want to eat it and then I can move towards the car toss it in and have him crated before he can think.

Sometimes there is fit throwing; but I toss treats and sing and have never had a dog carry on more than 15 minutes before relaxing and laying down. Upon arrival at the vets is where it gets really difficult; the dog has generally bonded to me in thankfulness to being released from the shelter and cries and cowers when I need to leave them with the vet. I HATE that part. But I get to follow their journey and they have all been sucessfully placed so no harm done. My shelter pick ups epitomize what Ana was talking about.

My second scenario is taking a dog who has been fostered and moving him to another foster while the original foster family takes a vacation or is unable to get the dog to the vets for a check up etc. Generally speaking these dogs could care less about me. They are accompanied to my car and settled by the foster parent and are generally well behaved and indifferent as I leave them at the vet or wherever.

My thoughts are this: the dogs at the shelter who are jumping at the gates, are desperate. I'm not so sure it is as much to get out as it is for a pack and order or competition with a cell mate who can make the biggest commotion. There is much to be done to build their confidence and give them a balanced place in the world. What scares me about this is that IMO the more desperate the display the more leadership that particular dog needs....yet he often pulls on the heartstrings of a kind unsuspecting adopter.

The dog who has been settled in foster trusts and has more confidence; not as likely to pull at the heartstrings.... but the transition into a permanent home will be easier. The rescue I work with likes to foster for at least 3 months to get a real feel for the dog.

A "meet" command could be beneficial but where I work with GSD the potential adopter recognizing the prize in an indifferent Shepherd bodes well for a good match.

At the adoption events I attended the potential adopters were given opportunity to meet the dogs in person and handle them after submitting the application and having passed the interview. A lot of these dogs were reluctant to follow the new person even after the foster told them "go ahead, say hi" etc.

I have been repeating the leash pressure with my dogs lately and it occurred to me that could it be that those unwilling dogs have been taught to follow the leader (the foster) but not the leash? We are not talking about hardcore sport dogs who will rip your head off if you look at them, but pets that often are going to very inexperienced homes and will have to be handled by strangers right away.

When the inexperienced new owner takes such a pet home they often encounter "pulling at the heartstrings" and when the dog flops on the ground and throws a fit they baby it and let it get away with this kind of behavior. At least I did

On the other end of the scale there are new owners that want immediate "respect" and start butt kicking right away.

I thought it might be helpful if the dog gets socialized (handled in a consistent manner by carefully selected strangers) and taught to follow the leash at the fosters' because too many new owners are too clueless to get the foundation right. Of course, they would need help to keep up with the training. Links to LB and printed training info to go with the new dog might be useful.

I have thought of this very thing. Many people do not know how to train a dog and by the time they learn they have to undo lots of previous behavior in a foster dog.( I have 3 fosters myself and have had to spend time debriefing them from previous behaviors.)
However, if foster agencies taught the basics to their dogs they are offering for adoption, maybe more would be adopted and kept. I have even wondered if a small class in adopting a dog for potential new owners would be a good thing too. Many do not understand the new dog they just got and can hurt their new relationship right off the bat and then think the dog is not for them, or just throw it out in the yard and forget it. When my husband and I were thinking of fostering we thought of training the dogs we got and helping the new owners understand dog behavior and how to train and house them. We thought of including the pack structure of the family dog from leerburg as part of the education. So, I think it is a great idea. Sharon

Wow, great question you guys. I’m gonna throw something out there.

I avoid shelters at all costs, won’t go in them. I have and it’s caused me heartache for years to come. My deepest respect for those that work in this environment day in and day out.

In the shelter, my energy was pathetic. Sympathetic to what I was seeing and helpless to do anything about it. Dogs are dogs and are so tuned in to any changes in their environment. As I walked the cold floors, my heart was just aching.

I’ve noticed with my boys, when I’m in a particularly weak state, they want to do everything they can to bring my spirits up. When I saw this desperation, pawing at the gates as I passed, I couldn’t help but think the dogs knew they could help me. “Just let me out and I’ll make you feel better”. Which of course would be totally true if I could have taken each one of them home with me. I can’t help but think I was causing some of this desperation, in animals that want nothing more than to be in balance with us.

I’ve never been to a fair and my four fosters were all happy to head out with their new owners. My energy was great – all the owners had been “grilled” and a thorough home study completed. I couldn’t have been more positive for the future of these pups.

But with me, it wasn’t just about who wanted the dog; it was more about who the dog wanted. The Akita had several potential wanna be’s along the way, but no one he took to like the last couple. It was just meant to be. And although the last and most difficult placement, one that had the most meaning.

As Kelly said, the dogs you’re seeing in the moment that you pass by those cages are not a true reflection of the beautiful souls contained within. They are responding to the excited or like me, pathetic energy that they are victims of (other dogs, kids, potential new excited owners) not to mention some of the horrors they may have been exposed to along the way. Having this in mind with my first foster really helped me to take a look at his needs for a successful reintroduction to mankind.

Coming to me scared and unknowing of what their future moment to moment life would be like, food was always the last thing on their mind, yes even the lab mix. I totally understood this simply because when I’m scared, the last thing I want to do is eat as well.

Often these dogs have been exposed to various trainers, family kids, friends, relatives and do-gooders along the way, not really getting to know any of them in any kind of meaningful way. I felt it was my job to be an ambassador for our species to these animals and I never wanted any outside influence getting it the way while I was developing that trust.

Once that trust is developed and the dog has learned a new way of being, living calmly within their own minds and bodies - trusting, safe and secure, the sky is the limit. We want to be able to trust them, have that predictable compliance to our requests – it’s so important that we ourselves are trustworthy.

And to me, trust comes with consistency and time. Yes, I believe in “Love at first sight” and instant bonding but it’s not the norm and trust does not factor into these equations. I also believe in magic but there’s always been a lot of hard work behind every miracle I’ve seen.

I think fostering for great adoptability does take time and hard work. It’s not just a matter of giving a dog a temporary place to live with food and shelter. There’s so much more these wonderful animals need to learn about us and fostering can be a great start to the way they view us.