Hi Everyone!

This is my first post, and if you need to call me an idiot that's ok, but I really want to help my dogs and my family. Here's the story. Our family has two adopted dogs. They were adopted within a week of each other from two different shelters (I can go into that story if anyone really wants to know, but I am not sure it matters for the purpose of this thread). One dog is doing just fine, the other one has some issues.

Here's the story for one of the dogs. We spent time with two dogs at the shelter and were interested in both dogs. On our application we stated that we were interested in both dogs if they thought one was a better fit for our family. After going through the adoption process we were contacted and told that one of the dogs would not be a good fit for us due to to his being part chow and us having a toddler. "Everyone" felt strongly that chows are too unpredictable around kids. The other dog, however, was said to love kids and dogs and we were approved for him. The next day we picked up the dog and brought him home. Due to our joint custody arrangement our youngest son (age 4) was not with us for the first week that he lived with us.

Because we wanted to make sure that the dog was healthy and happy we made a vet appointment for him and went through his paperwork to make sure everything was in order. One thing that stood out immediately was that the shelter in New Mexico that he was transfered to the shelter we adopted from thought that the dog was abused by small children. I was shocked to read this on the paperwork - I thought it was very unlikely that the people handling the adoption process would miss something like this and adopt a dog who had been abused by small kids into a home with a toddler, even if he never behaved aggressively at the shelter.

As a result of this new information, we immediately sought professional help. We are working with a trainer to help the dog overcome his fears and to integrate into our family. However, the challenges this presents are not minor. As soon as our son returned home the dog became aggressive. If he had not been on a leash (at the suggestion of the trainer) our son would definitely have been bitten. It is extremely fortunate that we became aware of this situation in advance of his return, or the consequences could have been tragic.

We were ready to take the dog back (sad as that would be), but the trainer convinced us this dog has a real chance of overcoming this issue. Right now he is learning to wear a basket muzzle and will use it regularly even when our son isn't around, but especially when he is. We are not allowing him to roam free around the child, he has to stay on the leash near us, or in his crate. However we do want to get to a point where he can have a degree of trust. I doubt the dog will ever really be able to be alone with our son (nor should he be), but I don't see how they can live together if being in the same room is going to cause him to get aggressive.

Any thoughts on how to best move forward would be appreciated. We are continuing with a trainer too, but somehow I feel like this community has dealt with this sort of thing enough to be worth asking for help.

Thanks for listening.

By the way, his name is Jubal.

Welcome to the board. Kudos to you for trying to help this dog.

However, if you were my client, I would tell you to return the dog. Too much at risk.

My first reaction would be that if you feel that you will have to live on eggshells with this dog and your child, I'd take it back or re-home it.

Is the dog fine when your son is not present? If so maybe he really just needs a child free home.

Hi Kelsey and welcome. No one's going to call you an idiot. You're a smart lady for seeking help and I think you've found a good place to get it.

My first question is: how committed are you to keeping the problem dog?

Is returning the dog an option for you, emotionally? Because that's my instinct, to be honest. Your highest concern has to be for your child's safety. You tried to make it work with both rescues...but you really only went into this wanting one dog, right?

Rather than spend lots of time and money trying to fix a situation that you weren't looking for to begin with, I honestly think I would admit that things didn't work with one dog and focus your time and attention on the other one.

If the answer is "we're keeping the dog because when we adopted him it was a lifelong commitment" (a sentiment that I also couldn't argue with)---then you'll get some management and training tips from others.

Hi Tracy (and everyone else!)

Let's see if I can answer you. We are willing to take the dog back if we absolutely have no other options, but we did adopt him with the expectation that it was a commitment. Obviously, we can't put a dog's needs above our children's safety, but yes the plan was that this is a commitment.

You're right that we went into this only wanting one dog, but it would not be accurate to say there isn't an emotional attachment. My partner especially was attached to this dog in the shelter and was really happy when he ended up being the dog they approved us for (we adopted the other dog in the "mean time" because we thought we were denied all together - go figure).

As for walking on eggshells, that is exactly my concern. I think about things like, "What happens when he trips and falls into the dog?" or "What happens when we are on a walk and some little kid runs up to us?" or, heaven forbid the dog ever get out... On the other hand, the trainer we are working with seems to feel that given some time and patience he can get to a point where we won't have to have those fears anymore and he can be trustworthy.

If he can get there, shouldn't we put the energy into helping him? Maybe I'm just overthinking it. If it was just me and my son I'd say take him back, but other members of the household aren't ready to give up yet, and I will admit I really would like to make it work.

Hi Kelsey, welcome.

I also live with a dog that has an ingrained fear of children however; I have no children living in my home. Because of the extreme consequences of this particular fear, a home with children is not at all appropriate for rehabilitating a dog like this.

Not the home life situation I would want to put a child though and the dog’s chances of success, being constantly faced with his trigger, would not be good.

This type of situation requires the strictest of management systems. Not a fun way to live, especially when young children may at risk.

I would also recommend you return the dog.

As far as your commitment to the dog goes, you adopted it under certain conditions of the dog's history and appropriate placement in your home. There was an error in making this placement that put your child at risk. The shelter needs to know this error was made and rectify the situation. They have not only put your child at risk, they have put the dog at risk. You are not helping the shelter improve its placement process, nor future dogs and families that may be put into this situation. I don't think you committed to this particular dog in this situation. There was an error and your responsibility lies in helping the shelter ensure it doesn't happen again.

I'm sorry you are faced with such daunting decisions!

 Quote: kelsey perkins

As for walking on eggshells, that is exactly my concern. I think about things like, "What happens when he trips and falls into the dog?" or "What happens when we are on a walk and some little kid runs up to us?" or, heaven forbid the dog ever get out... On the other hand, the trainer we are working with seems to feel that given some time and patience he can get to a point where we won't have to have those fears anymore and he can be trustworthy.

If he can get there, shouldn't we put the energy into helping him? Maybe I'm just overthinking it. If it was just me and my son I'd say take him back, but other members of the household aren't ready to give up yet, and I will admit I really would like to make it work.

Even a dog with a muzzle can hurt a 4 year old, if he really wants to.

If you are committed to keeping this dog separate from your 4 year old for now, and possibly forever, then you do have options with this dog.

Many people (myself included) have dogs, who at the very least, are never left alone with kids, and/or never given the opportunity to interact with kids, period.

You do this by managing the dog's environment and your son's environment. A crate is essential, as is your acceptance that the dog may never be reliable around your son. It means crating the dog whenever he is not able to be kept separate from your son. You can use baby gates or other barriers to prevent your son from tripping into him or approaching him, etc. And it means teaching your son not to approach the dog, at least for now.

Although the trainer may be able to help you, I would not depend on this dog ever being reliable around your son. If your partner is willing to be the primary caretaker for this dog, it may be more feasible to make this arrangement work.

PS, I'm with pretty much everyone else; this dog would do better in a home w/out kids...

We have informed the shelter of the situation and asked them what they intend to do to fix the situation. When I called them about it I was "stonewalled" and told, "Here are some numbers of trainers who can help." I have since written to the executive director to inform them of the situation.

As it stands now the shelter has been informed of their serious oversight and our current attempts to work with the dog. They also have been informed that we have no guarantees about behavior and that the dog may need to come back. Honestly the entire thing makes me sick and angry. This sort of mistake is absolutely unacceptable. I understand that you never know how a dog will behave in a home vs. a shelter environment, but when there is a documented history of abuse that is a totally different story.

Anyway, so far we have received no reply for the shelter. I can tell they intend to blow us off. I do believe they are required to take the dog back if we say it isn't working out, but they won't return our money (per our contract) and I fear won't get the dog the help he needs.

I'm so glad that you were able to prevent what could have been a tragedy. Kudos to you for trying be a responsible pet owner.

I am not an expert, but as a mother and someone who fosters rescues, I have to agree with everyone else. My youngest is 8 years old and always my first concern when bringing in a strange dog. Our first rule is no interaction, no contact, regardless of the history. This is even after they have been evaluated by an experienced person. Even at his age, I have to recognize that children and dogs are unpredictable. If one out of a million times the dog gets out of your control, or your 2 year old decides to open the crate or get too close, or stumple too close...it's a tremendous risk.

I have a pretty decent set up for separating a dog from the main flow of the household. I still, even for a short amount of time, would decline fostering a dog with this type of problem...let alone having one for the duration of his life. THere are just too many variable. JMO

I'm sorry that you have been put into this very difficult position.