I am at my wit's end due to a very specific manifestation of separation anxiety. As you may read from the details I'll describe below, like most dogs that suffer from separation anxiety this little Mal will bark and whine. That is managed fairly well with a bark collar. She is not destructive as some dogs are and she isn't hurting herself in efforts to get out of the crate. The issue that has worn me down is her loosing bowel control from (I think) becoming so stressed out due to confinement in the WIRE crate. I specify that the wire crate is the problem as she does not soil the airline crate, as I'll point out in detail down below.

Here's the particulars, which may be more than you choose to read. My situation specifically is with a young Mal with a for the most part unknown background. Let me give you the history and current specifics. When I first got this dog she really resisted the crate, turning to try and bite me as I'd put her in. Once she was in she'd spin circles and bark non-stop, which I pretty much ignored and managed(somewhat)with a bark collar. When it was time to take her out of the crate she was reluctant, snapping if I reached in to bring her out or even to pet her. I over came both the in and out of the crate with food and positive reinforcement. I can now open the crate door, say "crate" and she'll go right in, most of the time. Sometimes a little pull on the collar is needed. She always gets excited when it's time for her to come out, but I make her lay down and stay before I open the door. She is very compliant with this.

If she is sleeping in my son's room she will behave fine while loose, sleeping on the floor without a problem. So long as the door is closed, she stays in there and is quiet until I go to get her, which is anytime between 5:30 and 7:00 A.M. If let her sleep in there with the door open, without fail she'll come and wake me up at 4:00. I have in the past when she's done this told her to "platz" and she'll lay by my bed until I get up, but I wish she would stay in my son's room even when the door is left open. I can have her tethered on a leash to my son's bed with his door open and she is fine then also, secured to the bed but not barking or whining. On occasion we leave her in an airline crate in my son's room overnight. Like clockwork, again, at 4:00 she wakes me up with whining and spinning. Thinking she may need to go the bathroom, despite the fact I know she can hold out until 8:00 as she has when she's not in the crate, I take her out and walk her for a while. She generally looks at me or lays down, which just irritates me at 4:00, especially because I know that she can go all night without bothering me all the time I leave the door closed or leave the door open with her tethered to the bed.

Since I touched on the airline crate I'll mention, too, that at times during the day we will leave her in that same airline crate from time to time. If we leave the house she whines and spins like crazy to the point we've had to secure the crate so it can't be moved, but she keeps it clean for the several hours she is sometimes confined. Likewise, if left her in my son's room loose or with run of the house, she doesn't soil anything.

To summarize, so far, the problems are that:
1)if she has run of the house overnight she always is waking me up around 4:00 by nudging me with her cold nose.
2)if she's in the airline crate she makes a racket requiring attention at 4:00.
yet if she's in my son's 10x12 room with the door closed,or tethered to the bed with the door open, she's fine all night and stays quiet.

I made sure to specify above that it was an airline crate that is inside of the house. In the garage is a wire crate, and that's a REAL nightmare! She will enter that wire crate even more readily than the airline crate, and she'll behave if she's in it and I'm working outside or walking past her every once in a while, but if I leave her in there and I'm not around, which generally means the garage is closed except for an 8" gap to allow air flow as the fan is blowing on her crate, there's no telling what I'll find. Every time I leave her in such a manner and then come back anywhere from 30 minutes to a couple of hours, I fully expect that when I open the door I'll be met with the smell that she's crapped all over the crate, again. Sometimes that's the case, sometimes not.

The other night we went through the regular routine where she was in the airline crate in my son's room. At 4:00 she woke me with her barking/whining/spinning. I took her outside, walked her and after she just laid down on the lawn, I put her in the wire crate in the garage. As soon as I got back into bed she started with the whining/barking, so I went back to put the bark collar on her. A little over two hours later I went to check on her and sure enough, she had crapped everywhere. I do mean "everywhere" as her spinning propels the mess outside of the crate.

If I leave her alone in the house for a short time, as I have done when I know I'll be back in less than 30 minutes, I can tell she has gone spastic looking out of the windows as is evidenced by the blinds being moved and even the sofas being pushed askew, but she doesn't soil the house. If she's outside when I leave or return she checks me out through the gate, but she's laid back and not agitated. It seems it is almost only when she's in the wire crate that she becomes agitated, starts spinning and whining to the point she gets herself all worked up and looses control of her bowels, or that's my guess anyway. One of my first thoughts was that when she gets me up at 4:00 I'd put her into a small airline crate that barely accommodates her so she cannot spin around and get herself as worked up. Bad idea; she managed to make a mess in that,too,and even fling poo out the door.

I have tried using a tarp to enclose the wire crate to more closely resemble the security of the airline crate, but this has not brought any greater success.

That's an outline of the issues. I've typed much more than I had intended, but any suggestions on how to overcome this would be much appreciated. Not only is this a real pain at home, but with this behavior I certainly cannot have her travel with us. For her to accompany us on trips I need to have the confidence that she will not only settle in a crate both night and day regardless of its construction, but that she will also keep it clean. If we can't get her to that point, her interaction with our family's routine both at home and as we travel will be much more limited than we would like

In hopes of bullet-pointing a little ....

The wire crate in the garage: What is the reason for using it? I didn't quite get that. The garage may be too lonely and far from her pack. Is it stress diarrhea she has in it?

Didn't you have problems with the wire garage crate in the past? Why are you having to use it? That's a battle I would probably not pick, seeing it as counterproductive.

Are you keeping a journal as to poop times and meal times and exercise times? Poop times are manipulated by changing meal and exercise times, but you need the raw data first.

Do you leave a well-exercised, tired dog, with a big frozen foody item?

1)if she has run of the house overnight she always is waking me up around 4:00 by nudging me with her cold nose.
2)if she's in the airline crate she makes a racket requiring attention at 4:00.
yet if she's in my son's 10x12 room with the door closed,or tethered to the bed with the door open, she's fine all night and stays quiet.

If the dog is running around, she is stimulating peristalsis. OTOH, I still think of keeping a journal and then manipulating poop time with mealtimes.

This also sounds like a Mal with maybe not enough structured exercise (with you) and daily training (with you).

" If let her sleep in there with the door open, without fail she'll come and wake me up at 4:00. I have in the past when she's done this told her to "platz" and she'll lay by my bed until I get up, but I wish she would stay in my son's room even when the door is left open."

So every time she comes to you at 4 a.m., even though you now know she does not have to potty yet, you reward her with attention?

When there's a new dog in my house who thinks he should wake me up when he wakes up, you never saw such an unmoving unresponsive human before. I can't picture myself actually speaking to the dog instead of just waiting it out for the few days it takes for the dog to see "Well, this is boring."

OTOH, I am fully aware of potty needs, and they are met. A dog who wakes me because of an unexpected potty need is a far different matter.

Just a few thoughts .... all JMO!

I should add: Now that you have rewarded the 4 a.m. awakenings for ages -- even though not rewarding it will extinguish it, there will almost surely be what is called an extinction burst.

Just means that the dog, having experienced long-reinforced reward from the behavior, will try it longer and harder before it's extinguished.

Also, this is all JMO. There are many people here with this experience who are often not online so much on weekends.

 Quote: Eric Eschmann

If she is sleeping in my son's room she will behave fine while loose, sleeping on the floor without a problem. . . . I can have her tethered on a leash to my son's bed with his door open and she is fine then also, secured to the bed but not barking or whining.

So why don't you just tether her in your son's room with the door either open or closed. Sounds like that's what works - so use it to get her used to sleeping through the night and on a potty schedule (weeks, months, however long it takes) and in the meantime gradually work on extending her crate time during the day.

Connie,
Thank you for your opinions and observations. Let me try to respond back point by point.

Yes, you are correct. I have been dealing with this for a while as I first reported in http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=298391&Searchpage=1&Main=27698&Words=+Eric+Eschmann&topic=0&Search=true#Post298391 Mostly because my son has been at college, I haven't had to put her inside of the wire crate in the garage too often. It's a fight I have tried to avoid, but I'm afraid it's an issue I need to revisit if she it to stay generally clean enough to remain an inside dog rather than a solely outside dog.

I have been trying to use that wire crate as little as possible, putting her in there for only very short times. As to the "why" I use it question, although it's not often, when my older son is home with his dog, leaving this little Mal out is not an option. There are times, too, when tradespeople or others visit the house and she likewise needs to be confined out there.

It is not stress diarrhea. It's a well formed stool that she then tramples by her constant spinning.

Her feeding/bathroom schedule and habits are as they have been all along, and as pointed out in my post, soiling inappropriately is not an issue unless she is confined in the crate in the garage.

She gets worked out pretty well and with the Florida heat, she gets extra tired after our workouts. When she is inside with us she is so exhausted that my wife on more than one occasion has asked me to check to see if she's still alive because she becomes almost comatose when she's allowed to hang out in close proximity to us, which is most of the time.

I've tried Buster Cubes filled with food, Nylabones, Kongs filled with peanut butter, and other things. She never seems interested in any of them.

As far as rewarding her with attention by taking her out at 4:00, it was in an effort to err on the side of caution, as the other night was the first time in a while she has been in the situation where she chooses to wake me up. In the past after I had learned that she was playing me by doing this, I tried just putting her in the small crate as I reported up above; what a mistake that was.

With regard to the "extinction burst," although this has been over an extended time, it has at least been infrequent, as more often than not she has slept unrestrained in my son's room with the door closed or tethered to the bed with the door open, both of which is not a problem.

Cindy,
She has been doing great doing just that for about 6 months now, ever since the first time I checked in with this problem. The issue is in part this summer with my son home from college, there are times the dog will need to be confined. The garage is most convenient. Although there will be times she can be crated in my younger son's room,due to her history in the garage, I do not have confidence when I leave her inside of the house.

Is there a size difference between the wire crate and the plastic crate? Thinking she might have enough room to feel comfortable pottying in a larger crate...

Maybe consider a baby gate for keep her out of your room if you don't want her waking you up.

Connie,
Although I follow your reasoning, I'm not convinced that "able" to go equates to "has" to go. By way of example, I use a code word for my dogs to go to the bathroom for the times I take them out and need them to relieve themselves quickly. Those are not times they're cramping up because they're about to burst, yet they are able to void, and do so when called upon. As pointed out, too, the dog can stay clean for the identical amount of time when she's not in the crate.

Letting her disrupt the entire household without end hoping she'll learn that making a ruckus will not result in a reward is not an option out of consideration to the members who have to get up to go to work. Admittedly, that may be working against me.

In thinking about this, I feel my CCTV camera could be a tool that could help me by letting me monitor her to maybe intervene just prior to a mess, but I'm not sure exactly how to best put it to use. Thoughts?

 Quote: eric eschmann

Although I follow your reasoning, I'm not convinced that "able" to go equates to "has" to go.

I understand.

But the dog is producing formed logs when put into a kennel to which she reacts with spinning and running around and anxiety, etc. (I gather).

To stop this part of the kennel problem, I would use my knowledge of her potty schedule to get her pooping (a walk, whatever) first and not "ready to poop" and then kenneled (agitated, anxious, etc.).

Peristalsis, again, is stimulated by all this reaction to the kennel.

So I would eliminate (haha) that part of the issue and then work on crate training with the kennel.



But JMO.



eta
To me, all this really does not have a flavor of deliberate disruption, "playing you" by waking you at 4 a.m., etc. It all sounds like more like some management and crate-work fine-tuning. And again, JMO!

Edited by Connie Sutherland (05/08/2011 04:11 PM)
Edit reason: eta

Eric, have you experimented with putting the airline crate in the garage, to see if that resolves the poop problem? If she still poops in the airline crate when it's in the garage, you will have a better idea as to how to approach this, I think. (is it the crate itself, or the separation, or more likely the separation being aggravated by being in a large crate where she can get herself worked up)

If she doesn't poop in it, then I'd conside buying an extra airline crate to keep in the garage... (just what I'd do...)