I am curious to get some opinion on what is affecting my two dogs who are litter mates. We adopted their mom and were told she was spayed. We took her to the vet the day after we got her and they looked her over and vaccinated her since we didn't have the current records. They vaccinated her with modified live vaccines and then the rabies which, of course, wasn't MLV. A month after this she went into labor and delivered five puppies. She was vaccinated when she was about 4 1/2 weeks pregnant. We kept two of the puppies. When one of them, Lily, was about two months old we noticed she would wobbly a lot and looked like a bobble head. We chalked it up to her just being a tired puppy. When she was 4 months old she had an episode one night where she got extremely hyper, ran around like nuts, and then all of a sudden snapped into this mode where she would just sway back and forth and wobbly around almost as if she were drunk. We rushed her to the emergency vet and they said she must have eaten something and pumped her stomach. Nothing came out in the vomit, which we thought was odd, but didn't question it too much. A month after that she had another episode of wobbly and unbalanced and swaying. She would also become confused and not really be there. Took her to the vet the next day and they did a full work up and nothing came back abnormal so they said she was having seizures and these were the residual effects we were seeing. A week later she had this happen three days in a row. We switched her diet to raw and took her off all chemicals hoping this would help. Well, it has helped somewhat as she's only had one episode since January. However, now her brother, from the same litter, Theo, has started having this happen. He will sway back and forth and when he walks his feet will sometimes slide out in front of him. I am attaching a video of his episode yesterday. I have read that Cerebellar Abiotrophy has been linked to puppies who receive modified life vaccines while in utero. Please let me know what you think.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v649/maddy_ciccone18/?action=view&current=VID_20110509_134857.mp4

MLV vaccines are a no-no in pregnancy.
Live virus causes cerebellar problems. OTOH, the problems tend not to be the "come and go" type but permanent disability that is congenital, i.e. seen
as soon as the newborn can be evaluated. THe first trimester is the time the fetus is most sensitive, during the time of organogenesis -i.e.while the brain is developing rapidly.

It is also possible that the dog was infected with live street virus at some time in the pregnancy, possibly before you adopted her. There may have been no signs in the mother, and only the pups in -utero were affected. This is the type of
thing reported with German Measles virus in humans, a mild infection in the mother, severe problems for the baby.

I would not blame episodic (come and go) problems on congenital infection. I would be thinking of congenital seizure disorder.

I've read a decent amount of studies where people's animals have had cerebellar abiotrophy and didn't progress at a quick rate. It's not all that uncommon surprisingly for the dogs to have little episodes now and again and some progress faster while some just stay random episodes. Now whether those cases are actually abiotrophy or not are left to be debated. If they are seizures, I just feel like we should have seen the actually seizure at this point. The doctor also said the effects of seizures wouldn't linger on up to 12 hours. So I really have a hard time believing seizures.

I'm so sorry this has happened.

Could you link me to one (or more) of the studies that report episodic events associated with cerebellar abiotrophy? I readily admit not being at all "up" on this, but what I have read has been steady progression (even if slow, and even if late). I would like to learn more.

Did the vet have trouble seeing that she had not been spayed?

We took her to the vet initially b/c she had blood down there and we thought she might be in heat. They offered to shave her belly and look for a scar, but we declined.

I will post a list of articles/studies I've read here in a bit. I've read some things that say most animals are put to sleep shortly after they begin showing symptoms, I read one story of a lady's sheltie who has had episodes on and off for the last eight years, I've looked at videos on youtube of dogs having CA episodes and some were identical to my video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70f4kPf8R9w&feature=related ) So it seems like a lot of articles are all over the place.
I'm just amazed they all came out as healthy as they did considering what mom went through! He's at the vet getting a bile acids test and some labs done to rule out anything internally.

Hi Maggie,

Have you heard of this:

http://www.michvet.com/library/neurology_myasthenia_gravis.asp

If there is literature that says this cerebellar problem can "come and go" then I would probably blame the vaccine, or some in-utero viral insult.

I have seen this often in LA, cattle and horses. Just the "come and go" part is confusing to me. IME, it is what it is right from the start, doesn't get better or worse, though as the animal gets bigger and tries to do more things (turned out to pasture, eg) symptoms seem more pronounced. The intentional head tremor - i.e.
the bobbing head - as the head is pushed toward food, for example, is the hallmark sign of a cerebellar lesion.

The manifestation of seizure commonly gets worse over time. It can begin with a brief period where the dog is just "vague" or "out of it", and then after a few
years progress to the down on the side paddling, loss of bowel/bladder etc. that we think of as seizure. I'm not sure I ever heard anyone report seizures in infant pups, though.
Whatever it is, it's a shame. It will be hard to find homes willing for those little fellows.
What breed are these guys?
If a vet school is near you and these pups have classic cerebellar symptoms the school may be interested in adopting them.

The manifestation of seizure commonly gets worse over time. It can begin with a brief period where the dog is just "vague" or "out of it", and then after a few
years progress to the down on the side paddling, loss of bowel/bladder etc. that we think of as seizure. I'm not sure I ever heard anyone report seizures in infant pups, though.
Whatever it is, it's a shame. It will be hard to find homes willing for those little fellows.
What breed are these guys?
If a vet school is near you and these pups have classic cerebellar symptoms the school may be interested in adopting them.