Hello everyone! All opinions and advice will be much appreciated. I guess a little background on my 14 week (she will be on Sunday) old German shepherd named Bella…

We recently got her from a local couple. They breed regularly. We actually got lucky b/c this was the last puppy left in the litter and the people who put a deposit on her changed their mind and never picked her up. We got her at 10 weeks old and she was still with her parents and other dogs the entire time.

Breeders had all shot records to confirm she wasnt with anyone but them and we did take her to see the vet the breeders used. The breeder did explain that she was with someone during the day and at night she was put in a kennel with one of their other puppies who was a few months old.


So now going almost a month of having her, I think things are getting worse.

Bella SCREAMS when we put her in her crate.

The first few nights, the entire night she yelped. Now its perdiocally throughout the night not the entire time.

And when I say she screams, I mean she is in our house and our neighbors came over from there driveway and could hear her inside and wasn’t sure what the screaming was too make sure we were okay.

We have never once gone too her when she cries. Has anyone heard of this before? She has pretty much almost destroyed a large crate and she is only 14 lbs trying too get out! She moves it half way across the floor and one time she had the entire bottom slid out of the crate completely. Advice here?


I know your only suppose too give them enough room too lay down in her crate and we were doing that also. At first she was peeing SO MUCH everyday we had too rinse her b/c she was soaked in her urine. I mean soaked, no exaggeration. For the first 2 weeks every time she was soaked. She would pee as soon as we put her in there.

We have had very few accidents in the house since we got her. She’s only pooped once (our fault for not watching her) and peed a couple times when we didn’t get too her quick enough. She is pretty good about telling us when she needs too go at this point. But she still soaks her crate.

Not quite as bad anymore. We give her a ½ cup of water with her food twice a day. We give her a ¼ after walks or if she gets a bone. We DO NOT give her access too full water.

She is let out in the morning before we leave and right before we go too bed. My fiancé also gets up at night too let her out, but she doesn’t go potty because she has already gone so much.

So we decided since she was peeing in there so much too give her full run of her crate b/c we felt so bad she was so wet all the time.

Well that back fired. Now she is pooping in there and eating most of it. Now she is covered in poop. I took the space back away from her and so far only one accident of poop in there. But she is literally covered in her own mess.

I understand during the day they can only hold so much. But I didn’t think dogs would lie in there own mess.

I would let her out at night, we don’t feed her past 630 and she would poop before bed, but still goes in her crate.

I don’t get it. What are we doing wrong? She is the worst dog when it comes too the crate and the best dog when she is out roaming. She walks great on a leash, she listens, and she lets me know when she wants too go out.

We are all for crate training and don’t want too do it any other way. But since she’s getting bigger and older – the yelling at night gets louder. She doesn’t even bark when someone comes over and occasionally she talks too her toys. But in the crate, screams, and lays in her own mess.

We feel horrible and have taking advice from the breeders and our vet. Nothing is working. Is this normal? I never had these problems with the other shepherd I raised or the other 2 dogs I have had. Please help. I hate my puppy is covered in her own urine for 8 hours out of the day.


Edited by Connie Sutherland (07/14/2011 04:23 PM)
Edit reason: paragraphs!!! ;-)

I would say write down your schedule. Puppies can "hold it" for about as long in hr as they are old, give or take an hr.
Ex: a 3month old puppy can hold it about 2-3 hrs if needed.
Are you getting her out often enough? If not, get a walker to come let her out and tire her puppy brain out while you are away from the home. It sounds like you leave her for 8 hrs....she cannot possibly hold it that long
Also, you can leave a TV or music on when you arent home.
I personally wouldn't leave a 3 month old puppy alone for 8 hrs.

Also, where is the crate? She is most likely feeling the loss of her littermates and thus, the anxiety is causing crate training to backfire.
What food do you feed her? I recommend a high quality natural food. Leerbug has some listed on the site, I'd check them out.
Also, it sounds like shes doing well when let out of the house, so play the crate game with her.
Get a soft treat you can break up into pinkynail size. Get her attention and lure her in the crate, saying "crate" and giving the treat. I also recc. feeding her in the crate and letting her relax in there for awhile afterward.
I think I covered everything...but my son is harassing me to go outside
If you have any more questions, dont hesitate to ask!
Good luck!

Just some quick things to try,
1) feed her in her crate. let her see that the crate isnt a, "bad" place and only used when it is time to be separated.

2) with our puppy we turned a radio on LOW so he heard voices and stuff so he didnt think he was left all by himself.

3) from what i read on here and have experienced first had, regardless day or night puppies can only hold their bladders for 1hr per month of age. Sucks I know but what can you do? As for the pooping, well hate to say it but you may have started a bad habit. Once they do it a couple of times it becomes habit and they dont care it seems. Its a hard issue to break but the best thing you can do is take her out frequently and maybe moving "supper time" up to say 1700-1730. this should ensure her body has had some time to process the food.

I am by far no expert; these are just my experiences and things I have done. Good luck

Besides the already-posted (and excellent) advice:

Can you post a daily schedule? Tell us what blocks of time are spent how.

Are you tethering the dog to you?

Also, I see two issues.

For the potty issue, which is only going to get worse and worse if you don't fix it now, I suggest a few days devoted to it, with lots of outdoor time with you and the puppy. A bad habit has started, and now you face "un"-training. It can be done, though. You can do this.

So in this post I'm addressing the potty issue only.

First:

Was the litter paper-trained (which is basically teaching to go indoors)?

What is her food ... both brand and protein ("recipe")? (This is important ONLY if it's one of the foods recently found to be triggering hypercalcemia.)

What is her daily schedule?

Hi Rachel,

Some quick thoughts. What kind of crate are you using? I like to use a plastic airline crate for young pups - it is easier to hose out if you do have an accident, and it is more den-like and comforting than a wire crate. Covering it with an old blanket often helps with screamers. As Jason posted, once they start pooping in the crate it can be tough to break the habit, but starting over with a fresh and different crate environment that the pup doesn't associate with pooping sometimes helps. Just a thought.

I also like to put the crate in my bedroom when I'm crate-training a young pup. I know there's the "put 'em in the garage and let them yell" school of thought, but i've had better and faster results with the pup in the crate next to my bed - they settle quicker because know I'm right there, and if they start fidgeting around in the night it wakes me up and usually means they have to pee, so out into the night we go. Plus or a 14 week old pup I would be setting the alarm every 3 hours and getting her outside, then keeping her moving until she goes (very important). It's no good taking the pup out if nothing happens. Praise like crazy as soon as the pup goes in the right place. Having a designated pee/poop spot outside that you take the pup straight to, and a command ("Gotta go now....") also help communicate what's expected. I know it's tedious (I was doing this most recently last January with a new pup, in Colorado, in the snow...) but it's a short stage in their lives.

It sounds like you are onto not feeding or watering for a couple of hours before going into the crate in the evening. Are you also walking the pup outside to make sure she has thoroughly peed and pooped every time before she goes into the crate? Plus if she is tired out from plenty of exercise before she goes to bed she is more likely to sleep than scream.

She sounds like a nice pup. This will take a little extra time and effort to fix, but it can be done and it will be worth it.

 Quote: sarah ward

Hi Rachel,

Some quick thoughts. What kind of crate are you using? I like to use a plastic airline crate for young pups - it is easier to hose out if you do have an accident, and it is more den-like and comforting than a wire crate. Covering it with an old blanket often helps with screamers. As Jason posted, once they start pooping in the crate it can be tough to break the habit, but starting over with a fresh and different crate environment that the pup doesn't associate with pooping sometimes helps. Just a thought. I also like to put the crate in my bedroom when I'm crate-training a young pup. I know there's the "put 'em in the garage and let them yell" school of thought, but i've had better and faster results with the pup in the crate next to my bed - they settle quicker because know I'm right there, and if they start fidgeting around in the night it wakes me up and usually means they have to pee, so out into the night we go. Plus or a 14 week old pup I would be setting the alarm every 3 hours and getting her outside, then keeping her moving until she goes (very important). It's no good taking the pup out if nothing happens. Praise like crazy as soon as the pup goes in the right place. Having a designated pee/poop spot outside that you take the pup straight to, and a command ("Gotta go now....") also help communicate what's expected. I know it's tedious (I was doing this most recently last January with a new pup, in Colorado, in the snow...) but it's a short stage in their lives.

It sounds like you are onto not feeding or watering for a couple of hours before going into the crate in the evening. Are you also walking the pup outside to make sure she has thoroughly peed and pooped every time before she goes into the crate? Plus if she is tired out from plenty of exercise before she goes to bed she is more likely to sleep than scream. She sounds like a nice pup. This will take a little extra time and effort to fix, but it can be done and it will be worth it.

All great advice others have shared!
I always seem to have a pup here. I currently have a 13 week old pup, and as always, follow what Sarah has written{ I love when others do all the typing}.

I appreciate all of your advice, suggestions and comments. I have tried to answer all questions and reply to everyone all at once. So if you asked me something it’s defiantly answered below.

Her crate is located in the center of our living room where we spend all of our time. She does go out plenty, but unfortunately we work during the day and we have nobody that is able to let her out while we are at work. Other than that she is fine.

My fiancé has been out of town, so I have spent all my time working with her this week. Since I put the divider up in her crate we are now on day 3 of no pooping in there. But still peeing.

I understand during the day there will be accidents, its just at night when we get up too let her out, she is still soaking herself in urine. I am understanding that it is my fault I decided to give her free roam of her crate after only 2 weeks of peeing in there and not pooping.

The breeders had a 15x5 kennel with cedar chips on the other side that the puppies went on. So IDK if that has anything to do with why she is peeing in the crate. The breeder insured me that none of the other puppies from the litter are having these issues but they were all out of the breeder’s house by 7 weeks old. We got Bella at 10 weeks old.

Right now we are feeding her a pedigree large puppy food. She seems to like it. We would want to wait a little bit longer before switching her food again since we did this once a month ago with the breeder’s choice of food. Is pedigree not a good one?

I have never heard the crate game before or feeding them in there! This has been great advice thank you so much!

Our schedule and Bella’s schedule

5:45am – feeding which is 1 cup of food and letting out. She gets a ½ cup of water.

7:30am – her last chance to go out for the day before being put up. Once she’s finished with her food her water is taking away and she is usually done eating by 6am. She usually goes out twice too pee and once too poop in this time frame. She has free roam in the room with me while I get ready.

4:30pm – she is let out for the bathroom, playtime and is left out of the crate. She is given a ¼ cup of water at this time.

5:30pm – she is fed 1 ½ cups of food and given another ½ cup of water.

5:45pm – she is walked. Right now we go about 9 blocks around the neighborhood. Takes about 15 mins. Most of the time she pees right when we hit the front yard, yesterday she pooped b/c she hadn’t done so when I got home.

6pm – another ¼ water

6pm – 10pm she is blocked off in the living room with me and my fiancé. She has free roam too play, chew on bones and we let her out as needed. She hasn’t had but 1 accident in the house in the last 10 days (which was my fault, I took my eyes off of her) she usually gets another ¼ of water one more time.

10-1030pm – she is taking out once more and then put to bed. We get up between 1-2 am to let her out. Most of the time she won’t even use the bathroom.

Then it’s all repeated the next day.

Weekends she pretty much has free roam in whatever blocked off room we are in or if we are outside we bring her with us. She is still on the same feeding times, and still given the same amount of water. Usually an extra ¼- ½ cup depending on if we are running around outside etc. her bedtime differs with ours. We like too have her out and around us too roam when we are home.

The kind of crate me use is made for large dogs and it’s the all wire crate. The first week we had her we did put her in our room in the crate, and she still screamed. We keep her in the living room now with a night light and a radio. We may look into the airplane crate now though since I see there are a lot of recommendations for that.

Also with the advice of having one spot too pee in outside is a great idea. Petsmart is having a sale this weekend and I think we are going too look into one of those little wire open fences where we can open the door and she runs in for potty. Great idea! Hopefully this will help at night when we get up also and she refuses too go.

I have heard some great advice. Out of the crate she is an amazing puppy and so good and loving. Inside the crate it is a nightmare and we don’t know if it was something we are doing wrong. I hope I have answered all your questions to help with any further advice you may have.

Also does anyone have a cure for the eating of the poop? Hoping that our 3 days straight of no poop in the crate continues, we try and get it picked up soon after she goes but sometimes we miss some. I have heard there is something you can put in their food, is this true and is there any recommendations?

Oh and for the specific breed of German Shepherd, at her age, how much walking is approriate. Right now she keeps up with 9 blocks, and I notice she is tired toward the end and slows up so I dont push any further than that.

TAMMY MOORE – Is this your shepherd? Absolutely beautiful coloring. The majority black is my favorite shepherd. I am very excited to see how the coloring of my little girl changes as she gets older. THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP!

Rachel,

If I understand your post right you are leaving her in the crate for 9 hours without a break during the day? That's way too long to expect most 14 week old puppies to hold it - I would not be surprised if she pees in the crate out of desperation and so she's just gotten into the habit. Is there any way you or someone can let her out during the day?

There's a lot else in your post - thanks for the additional information - and I'm sure others will chime in, but that's the first thing that leapt out at me.

Hi Rachel,
9 hours is too long to expect a 14 week old puppy to 'hold it'.

Do you know anyone that can come and let your pup out for a potty break at mid-day?

If finances allow, a dog walker would be a great idea...

(ps, very large blocks of text are difficult to read; you'll get more responses if you put paragraph breaks in! )

Rachel, you may have to set your alarm every hour at night to take her out until you can figure out exactly when she is peeing in the crate at night. If you can pinpoint a specific time when she goes, you may be able to take her out just before and have success. You might have to stand in the yard for half the night too I'm thinking that the long number of hours in the crate during the day is just an unreasonable expectation at this point in time for her age. I hate to use this analogy, but it's like asking a 9 month old baby to not leave it's crib and wear the same diaper all day. Just physically impossible right now. Do you have a trusted neighbor that could help you out with mid-day outings? If not, I might find a way to keep her safely contained in an outside area with access to water and a clean pee spot. I don't know if you have covered this, but does she have a bed in her crate? She may be less apt to "go" if she has a comfortable sleeping blanket or rug.