Hello again,
I need help. I'll try to make this as brief as possible. I have a 5 year old Jack Russell that has always been dominant, but it had never been a problem with my Shih Tzu because when she wanted him to stop, she let him know and he would immediately back of. Shes a total submissive lap-dog. We had several occasions where he challenged me and I delt with it firmly, without any abuse.I just figured it was part of being a JR, I've had two before. In Feb we got a GSD/MAL mix and they were great buddies. Shiloh, the mix is very submissive and playful and Argos, the JR was obviously the pack leader (well canine). The bigger my Shiloh got the more aggressive Argos got. He was displaying guarding of everything, furniture, people and just about anything. He was just being an Ass! Then he started a full on attack on Shilon where he would launch himself off the chair and bite her in the face. Then he started turning on me and we had a couple bad bites where he broke the skin. I did my research and took him through the grounwork training and he was in his kennel 24/7, only going out for walks. No attention, only business, then after he stopped attacking the kennel when Shiloh walked by, we started reviewing basic obedience and started leaving him out for longer periods of time seperating the dogs by a French door, when he would try to attack her thru the door we went back to step one. This has gone on for about 4 months and he is now very submissive to me and follows my commands without hesitation and I have brought him back into the same room with the other dogs, supervised of course. Now the problem is Shiloh is so big (50 lbs vs 12 lbs) she just wants to play and she walks over (she's so clumsy) Argos and for the most part they ignore each. He, of course growls and hides under the table and under furniture where Shiloh can't get to him and I step in and make Shiloh stop, but do any of you have any advice as to how I can make this transition smoother? I really want them all to cohabitate peacefully.

" I have brought him back into the same room with the other dogs, supervised of course. Now the problem is Shiloh is so big (50 lbs vs 12 lbs) she just wants to play and she walks over (she's so clumsy) Argos and for the most part they ignore each. He, of course growls and hides under the table and under furniture where Shiloh can't get to him and I step in and make Shiloh stop, but do any of you have any advice as to how I can make this transition smoother? I really want them all to cohabitate peacefully. "

With three, which makes it much less doable, why does it have to happen now?

I wouldn't have them together yet without a drag line on the one who is terrorizing the other one.

Then the puppy cannot attack the bigger dog, and vice versa. This is your job as pack leader to make sure they do not. (Sorry I lost track of names. )

You'll get more advice, but weekends are very slow on dog boards (people are training). But you will get help.

Dayna, three dogs is a pack. It sounds like your pack is still operating under the assumption that one of them is going to be the pack leader because the human is not. If they are allowed to work this out over and over, the results will be the same; one of the dogs is always going to be trying to establish they are in charge. Sometimes it is the JRT... sometimes the Shih Tzu and now Shiloh.

Simply put, not all dogs like or need doggie friends, and it doesn't sound like the JRT wants any. The reality is, living with these three dogs is going to take rock solid obedience for all three and more than enough exercise for all three, especially the JRT and Shilo. Both those dogs require a heck of a lot of working/exercising to be sane and well managed, so that might be an area you could explore. Tired, mentally satisfied dogs simply don't have the desire nor the energy to be a pest. Your JRT might be great at tracking or agility - same for the mixed breed. Regardless, if they are simply getting outside to go potty and walked on a leash, all that pent up energy is going to come out somewhere at some time.

I'd recommend you look into Marker Training if you aren't already using it. Then I'd make sure each dog has rock solid obedience and IF and WHEN I wanted them all out together, it would be on a place command and they would all be laying nicely on their beds- away from each other.

I hope some of this helps. Personally, I'd work more on training each dog seperately before I'd worry about getting them happy together. Best of luck. Remember, three is a pack.

Yes, I agree totally. They do require more exercise. My health doesn't permit me to really get them out for long walks, just short ones but my husband comes home Sat from Afghanistan and that will change. We will get them both back into basic obedience and I have already looked into the Agility for Argos. I have been working on marker training with Shiloh and we do a lot of work alone in the house with that and she has dome exceptional. It's time to start with Argos. When I tell Shiloh to stop, she stops and when I tell Argos (JRT) to "out" he gets out from under the furniture. I have started taking Shiloh to a friends who has a Wolfhound that is 117 pounds and they just wear each other out. Were going to start doing that about three times a week now that it's cooling off. Plus I think it's good for her to see what it's like to get knocked around by a bigger dog. Shiloh can walk under her.
I can't believe I didn't think about the exercise myself, but sometimes when your so close to the situation, it's hard to see. I can take them out separately and play ball with them, that wears them out a bit. I do play tug with Shiloh in the house and that works a little and we play catch, but I know she needs more and that will change soon.
I also think Argos wants to be the Alpha, and I'm Alpha (or trying to be). Shiloh has always been very submissive, but now is starting to stick up for herself. The Shih Tzu is happy to be left alone as long as she is on my lap or my daughters lap.
Thanks

I don’t think it sounds like either Shilo or Argos want to be pack leader. They are just two dogs telling each other what they need/want.

Shilo wants to play, Argos does not. When Argos is telling Shilo to settle down, go away, don’t bug me with your puppiness, you are correcting Argos. You cannot force two dogs to like each other.

Argos is 5 years old and you brought a puppy into his home. It sounds like he warned and warned you that this puppy is becoming a bully and he couldn’t take it anymore. All his warnings got him was corrections and crate time.

From what I’m reading, he’s led a life of uncertainty in who his leader is and how his pack is run. Now a high energy puppy has been given free rein to take over. Argos was trying to open your eyes to what’s really going on, he was dismissed and you’re now calling him an ass. I think I’d bite you too.

He’s submissive to you because he wants out of his 24/7 exile.

Older puppies have a way of really testing their limits with other dogs. It looks submissive but as I stated earlier, if you really watch closely, the puppy can actually be quite a bully. They’ll go down on their belly, roll on their back and stretch their legs out to stick their paws in the face of the older dog. Little nose punches and nips to egg the other dog on. That clumsy stumbling on top of him, she very much knows what’s she’s doing. To many dogs, especially older ones, this is extremely annoying.

It’s up to you, as the leader, to ensure Argos is not exposed to this bullying. Had you stopped it when he first starting warning you and set some proper ground rules for Shilo, this would not be happening.

IMHO, you’ve got the wrong dog in the crate. It sounds like all your dogs will benefit from putting a strict pact structure in place but it’s Shilo that needs to learn the rules.

I think you can turn this around but your dog’s need to trust that YOU are truly going to do that. They need to be protected from this bully rather than constantly having to protect themselves. Argos soon won’t stand a chance.

You need to learn to pick up on those subtle cues that Shilo is displaying from across the room, the ones where Argos knows in the next two seconds she’s going to be in his face.

Once boundaries have been put in place and they are no longer being crossed I think you’ll find a much more peaceful household.

I agree. I think your Jack Russell is trying to tell you something. He is not enjoying playing with the other dog nor does he/she want to. If you do not step in your dog could decide to take things into his own hands. I'd not require him to play with the other dogs. Like you were saying he needs more exercise. I understand this I have a jack russel mix and man! does he need exercise! Don't give up, but establish some rules and keep them. sharon

Your right, Shiloh is doing those things and I am stepping in and stopping it. However, I'm felling a little ganged up on. My JRT full on attacked me several times drawing blood before I did the ground work training and this happened while Shiloh was teathered to me and constantly under my control. It was either take a step back and start over with him and try and correct the mistakes I MADE with him or let thing continue and have some serious consequences.
Yes, they both need more exercise and they will be getting that very soon. I don't think it's necessary to go into my medical history, but I am not physically able to walk them for 30 min twice daily. I did not know at the time I got Shiloh that my condition would progress to this point so I have done the best I can by coming up with creative ways to keep her engaged and active. She's not out of control and has responded to training very well and Argos is also very responsive to training and an exceptional dog.
I was hoping to get some helpful advice. I know my dogs, they will be fine and I will figure it out.
Discussion closed.

From your description, Argos sounds fearful, and it sounds like he was fear biting. I have an older fox terrier (Skipper) and an adolescent shepherd x (Jethro). For the most part, they get along well, they even play together. I have to watch them, though, because Jethro can be pushy and nosy. When Skipper curls his lip I know he has had enough. It is possible that I am leaving it too long. It helps to have the behaviours described - laying on his back putting his paws in Skipper's face, circling Skipper with his head arched, whining and nose bumping for attention. I will step in sooner now.

As Jethro gets older, he is pushing boundaries, including Skipper's. I am extra careful these days, and never leave them alone. They still have games of chase, tug, and even wrestling matches (which are very funny because Jethro has to make accommodations for Skipper's size), but it is up to me to make sure Skipper is not feeling put upon.

In our house it is Jethro who goes in the crate to settle down. His crate is his sanctuary, it is layered with blankets and very dark and quiet in there.

I'm not an expert, I am a student of my dogs, they are my teachers.

 Quote: dayna haines

I'm felling a little ganged up on.

I’m really sorry (for Argos) that you’re feeling this way Dayna. And this is a dog training site - you’re absolutely correct, no need to go into your medical condition.

Although exercise was mentioned (in three posts) and I totally agree that it would solve a majority of your problems, I didn’t feel the need to repeat it. I don’t know what you’re looking for but the information I provided was about the pack structure problem you are having. I’m no expert but I do (and have for many years) lived peacefully with a pack of dogs.

You’re choosing to turn a blind eye to the information, just like you did the warnings from Argos. I can pop in a few stronger sentences to try and wake you up, but as for poor Argos, he has run into a brick wall with his warnings and his only option left is to lash out.

It’s clear that you don't understand what both of their body language is telling you, regardless of who is on a leash or not.

Please, before you get seriously hurt, keep these dogs separated.

 Quote: dayna haines

then after he stopped attacking the kennel when Shiloh walked by

And if you chose to put Argos back in the crate (under your conditions, a big mistake in my books) please move him to a place where Shilo cannot flaunt her status and give him the stink eye while he’s in there.

 Quote: dayna haines

I think it's good for her to see what it's like to get knocked around by a bigger dog.

A young pup, running with and getting knocked down by an Irish Wolfhound, 3 days a week, may look like a fun exercise to you but I wish you luck with the dog on dog issues this is most likely going to cause down the road, if not already.

 Quote: dayna haines

I delt with it firmly, without any abuse.

The bigger my Shiloh got the more aggressive Argos got.

It sounds like she’s going to get bigger. So what’s in store now? Abuse?

 Quote: dayna haines

Now the problem is Shiloh is so big (50 lbs vs 12 lbs) she just wants to play and she walks over (she's so clumsy)

He, of course growls and hides under the table and under furniture where Shiloh can't get to him

I tell Argos (JRT) to "out" he gets out from under the furniture.

And if you’re going to allow Shilo to run amok in your home, continuing to pester him, I would suggest that you allow Argos to find and remain in his own sanctuary. He doesn’t sound like a temperamentally fearful dog, but yes, he is afraid of the big bully that’s taken over his house.

 Quote: dayna haines

She's not out of control and has responded to training very well

No one said that she’s out of control; she’s just being a puppy. You have a combination of one the most energetic and biddable breeds here. She needs exercise and structure.

Argos is the one that’s suffering because you’re not providing the exercise and structure that your pack requires right now.

Good luck with this.

Dayna, please don't think any of this is about you. It's about the dogs.

A dog-walker would be high on my list to help pick up some slack.

QUOTES from above that probably bear repeating:

I think your Jack Russell is trying to tell you something. He is not enjoying playing with the other dog nor does he/she want to. If you do not step in your dog could decide to take things into his own hands.

Shilo wants to play, Argos does not. When Argos is telling Shilo to settle down, go away, don’t bug me with your puppiness, you are correcting Argos. You cannot force two dogs to like each other.

Argos is 5 years old and you brought a puppy into his home. It sounds like he warned and warned you that this puppy is becoming a bully and he couldn’t take it anymore. All his warnings got him was corrections and crate time.

From what I’m reading, he’s led a life of uncertainty in who his leader is and how his pack is run. Now a high energy puppy has been given free rein to take over. Argos was trying to open your eyes to what’s really going on, he was dismissed and you’re now calling him an ass.

It’s up to you, as the leader, to ensure Argos is not exposed to this bullying. Had you stopped it when he first starting warning you and set some proper ground rules for Shilo, this would not be happening.

No one said that she’s out of control; she’s just being a puppy. You have a combination of one the most energetic and biddable breeds here. She needs exercise and structure.

Argos is the one that’s suffering because you’re not providing the exercise and structure that your pack requires right now.




"Yes, they both need more exercise and they will be getting that very soon."

They need it now.


"I think it's good for her to see what it's like to get knocked around by a bigger dog."

Not only is it not good, but it's the pack leader's job to make sure NO pack member lives in anxiety or experiences violence that the pack leader doesn't prevent.


I think you can fix this. You wouldn't have posted here, where you know that straight answers are forthcoming, if you didn't care. So I think you will read and heed.