I’ve learned from PMs that the O.P. from http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=31645&page=1 posted in hope of a journey of discussion, learning, and discovery, and believes that even if nothing ever changes, it will be OK -- that the dog is at peace and confident almost all the time. She points out that she believes she has implemented the changes and mechanisms to ensure that nobody is ever going to be hurt.

She adds that

“I'm an incompetent trainer with a shelter mix. Luckily, we're socially isolated, so by giving me advice, you will not be inadvertently contributing to the death or dismemberment of an innocent person. Thanks in advance.”

(I disagree that this is a dog who is confident and not anxious about his lack of leadership and protection.)

I'm sorry Connie, I'm confused. Was the OP hoping for more of a blog type thing which a cheerleading section (that would be us)?

 Quote: Betty Waldron

I'm sorry Connie, I'm confused. Was the OP hoping for more of a blog type thing which a cheerleading section (that would be us)?

I believe she considers it more of a discussion than an urgent request for help.

She can better explain her own POV.

Gotcha.

It was one of those posts where you could sort of guess where it was going, I think all the people that posted replies have the patience of saints and the tact of a diplomat, respect to you all!

I hope the OP does come back once she has had a chance to re-read the whole post and realize every one was trying to do their absolute best for her dog, and if she really can't move on and do the right thing by it, place it in a rescue with a good judge of who could cope with its issues and will fulfill its many needs.

Rescues do seem to place inappropriate dogs to unsuitable owners at times, I imagine it is done with the intention of getting the poor dog into a proper and loving home, but at the expense of a the boomerang dog that some of them all to often are.

A dogs life really is a lottery, for every dog that is fortunate there will always be one that is doomed to a life of uncertainty, so bloody sad.

Thanks for trying to help me start over, Connie.

I wanted advice, but confused the issue by going off on too many tangents with too many irrelevant questions and comments. I thought it was really interesting, myself, and I'm still thinking about "fear" as a reflex (see snake, jump back) vs. "fear" as the motivation for complex behaviors (hear UPS truck, assume intruder into territory, leave garage, accost intruder, do not allow intruder to leave, etc.) What is the fear of, in that case? And when does it start, and how many times does have to that happen until the dog feels no fear anymore? Most dogs don't look scared when they bark at people outside their yard; they look more happy or determined or something, or maybe they aren't feeling anything then, just having a reflex, and when the person comes in they either become happy if they like people or fearful if they don't. Maybe I'll start a thread about that for people who think it's an interesting to discuss. (I assume there are people here who just like to talk about dog stuff; maybe not.)

Unfortunately, my discussion was perceived as arguing instead of trying to understand, and as denial of my problem, which obviously I wouldn't be asking for advice if I didn't know there was one, and as wasting peoples' time, which I feel bad about. I don't want to waste anybody's time, and good advice is worth a lot, especially when people are nice enough to give it for free to strangers for the sake of the dog.

I really think marker training is cool, and would like to learn how to do it.

The situation is what it is now; I mean it can continue forever without any danger to people, so no I didn't consider it urgent. I wish I could convince you that it's not urgent from Mondo's POV, because he just isn't in these stressful situations very often at all. Never at home anymore, because he can't go where people might be. (Even that was rare; just a couple times in four months.) We don't see many people when we go out, and actually most people don't scare him, plus he has gotten a lot, lot better with that. He's not neurotic at all. Of course I stupidly showed a video of him pre-walk that makes him look like a blood-thirsty fiend, but most dogs who aren't owned by dog-trainers start telling us when it's time to go, if they don't think we are moving fast enough. But showing a video of him laying around like he does most of the time would be kind of boring. Maybe I'll take a camera and walk where we might see people, so you can see he is not a quivering ball of nerves all the time, not at all. If Mondo is unhappy because he hasn't got a good pack leader, the vast majority of dogs are unhappy. I just don't think that's true; part of why I like him so much is how happy he is all the time (except when delivery men come.)

I know people here know the difference between a really smart dog and an average dog--Mondo is smart, very smart. Even with my bad training, seriously, I taught him to bark and growl on command in one session, and then taught him if did when I didn't tell him to, I would interpret that as meaning he wanted to go outside with one time of putting him outside. After he bark/growled at me for no reason, I said, "Outside!?", and put him out. When I let him back in, he tested it, giving the tiniest little growl: "grr?". I said, "Outside?", and he looked away so fast and didn't do that anymore. Now, when he wants to get my attention but not go outside, he gives the tiniest little whispered noise, like he's barely clearing his throat. I reward him with looking at him, which I don't know if that's bad or not; he is controlling me, but it's pretty minor, more like a communication.

If things work, they work; it doesn't matter who is right about the philosophy behind them, if all you want is results. If that is true, I may be able to learn, if I can keep my mouth shut. Another problem is that I don't know if I can go as fast as peole expect me to. People seemed to think I was moving very slowly. I guess since I don't feel under any pressure or stress about this, and don't think Mondo is suffering (he's not, please believe me), and also a lot of the advice was things that you do over time, so I don't know how I can instantly change things like that.


Thanks again to everybody who tried to help me.

 Quote: tracey holden

It was one of those posts where you could sort of guess where it was going, I think all the people that posted replies have the patience of saints and the tact of a diplomat, respect to you all!

I hope the OP does come back once she has had a chance to re-read the whole post and realize every one was trying to do their absolute best for her dog, and if she really can't move on and do the right thing by it, place it in a rescue with a good judge of who could cope with its issues and will fulfill its many needs.

Rescues do seem to place inappropriate dogs to unsuitable owners at times, I imagine it is done with the intention of getting the poor dog into a proper and loving home, but at the expense of a the boomerang dog that some of them all to often are.

A dogs life really is a lottery, for every dog that is fortunate there will always be one that is doomed to a life of uncertainty, so bloody sad.

OK, if I'm not going to talk about irrelevancies in this thread, can we also have a ban on judgmental statements from moralizing people who obviously don't know enough about the situation? Seriously, you people need to get out more. You've lost touch with how the common folk live. There are a lot of dogs owned by non-professionals who have happy lives. Even ones who guard the house.

But if no ban is possible, I can ignore them.

Just at a glance of what you've posted in this thread Rovena, I get the idea you're trying to apply human thoughts and reactions to a dog. There's a big long word for it. You probably know it, its too much for me.

With the different triggers and thresholds combined with drives in a dog, there's a lot going on. I doubt anyone can honestly know exactly why they fear the ups driver or why they hope that barking will make him go away, only to be happy to meet him when he doesnt.

Is there one thing, training wise, you're looking to accomplish in all this?

 Quote:

If things work, they work; it doesn't matter who is right about the philosophy behind them, if all you want is results.

Thats basically me. There's a 1000 ways to accomplish or train most anything. I just like to figure out the best one for my dog and have some fun.

PERSONIFICATION ?

Anthropomorphize