I'd like to perfect a loose heel- I'd like a really close heel- with attention- less than a few feet- so we are able to pass other very close distractions (on a narrow trail passing other dogs).

I'd also like a looser 'with me' command, where the dogs stay within 10 feet or so of me. This is to prevent frequent recalls and 'not too fars' when my dogs smell another person-moose-dog on the trail in front of us and want to check it out. I do recall and leash if I see my dogs really getting too interested in something ahead but I'd like to just have a 'stay close' or 'with me' type command.

How do I teach them to stay within a certain distance of me? How does this work with three dogs on a narrow trail?

This is off leash work. What kind of proofing/corrections? I do have e-collars and have used them for recall training and once for aversion (porcupines). The dogs wear them, but I rarely use them these days. Long lines are a mess with three dogs at once on narrow, snowy trails. Leashes seem to just lead to escalated arousal for my dogs with all the off leash dogs we meet- at least on the narrow trails. We use leashes in the city.

I do use marker training. All the dogs are keen to train and enjoy it.

The dogs know 'fuss'=heel with attention for individual dogs- not possible on the narrow trails with all three

'Here'- recall

'Hey' stop and look at me. "Wait" Do not need to come back as with recall. Stop and wait for me to catch up.

'with me'- stay even with me or slightly behind. I've only used this on wide trails where we do not have to come more than 5 feet close to a distraction (distraction= other dog, person, moose). The narrow trails make this command much more difficult. Deep snow makes pulling all dogs off the trail in a sit nearly impossible, and I fall in up to my waist (three plus feet of snow on the ground off the packed trails). Plus we are often moving faster than other users and need to pass from behind.

I reward with treats/tug. I have 'lured' the dogs while teaching 'with me' on the wide trails (lunch break walk) so they are getting treats/watching the tug as we pass the distraction. Once past the distraction it is a treat/tug party. Then they are free to sniff/do whatever. Not so much luring on the narrow trail. Not sure the best way to deal with passing dogs?

When the dogs are 'free' they must stay in sight and come on command, but can be within, say 50-100 feet of me at times. So the 'close' would be a 10 foot limit, and the 'closer' would be only a few feet, and behind me deal- with focus on me.

The narrow trails are the easiest and really only way to get to the ski trails from my house. We are on them for a half mile or so. We moved, and this is a new issue.

I'd also like to phase out always having to treat/reward as soon as possible. With gloves/ski poles/darkness and a hard core tugger it is annoying to do this many times during a ski.

But I guess that is for later. First I need to come up with a plan of training. I am more than able to start this on wide trails/street but the jump to the narrow trails must be made at some point.

I'd love to get comments on video once I start training this. I have three dogs, two adult, one 8 month old pup. The pup has not been introduced to e-collar yet. She does respond to leash pressure. She is sensitive/soft to corrections and I'd like to stay positive until she is a bit more mature. The pup is tug-crazy.

Wow, walking 3 dogs. i would have all the leads tangled up. My suggestion get 2 friends to go with you. All kidding aside, someone on the board will come up with a solution. good luck

You know I used to hate training distance recalls, especially when it was cold & wet. My voice would almost always go out on me after a while yelling repeatedly. I'm always trying to find an easier way of doing things, (if at all possible, if not then I'll go with the hard way), so I was lounging one morning and was watching a herding video. One guy whipped out a whistle, and starting blowing commands with perfect responses. I sat up, and thought, ****! I've been doing this wrong the whole time. I got myself a whistle and haven't gone back. Easier to use in the cold, and if you can whistle loud yourself, then that's even better! Just a thought.

I teach the behind to my 2 boys, that mean walk behind me and close. Now I got to figure out how to teach them not so close as they walk on my snowshoes.

I first did it on leash, I placed them behind me and say behind. The rest is pretty much like teaching a good heel.

If you are on skis you will most likly have the same problem of having dogs on your skis. So maybe start on foot. For me winter did help some as snow made some deep paths that I used just like a wall but very low, now they are getting pretty good.

You're not asking for much are you.

Ultimately, I prefer leash walking two. Do three all the time and have done 4 and 5 on many occasions. I think the key is the work you do individually though. Depending on what kind of training is going, where the dogs are at, what issues may be going on - it's not unusual for me to take each dog out solo.

Ideally, Bob and I walk together. When we had 4, he'd take 2, I take 2. Now he takes the husky and I take the 2 big boys, and we mix that up sometimes too but that's pretty much the norm.

My Siberian husky has an ability to add an unruliness to a leashed pack walk. While older and has nowhere near the physical or energetic capacity of the younger ones, he's truly the patriarch of my pack. If he's feeling extra spunky and goofy, it has a way of trickling through the other two. He's brought in line quickly and peace is restored but it can make for a bit of pulling when otherwise there would have been none.

Off leash, when they're younger, they love to explore and that 50 feet can turn into 100 in a matter of seconds. I don't think it's anything to do with them disobeying, it's just so darn interesting out there and they do need to be reminded about "not too far".

For us, it's not a recall, simply a distance command. My boys pretty much stop dead in their tracks and kind of hang out until I get a little closer. You may seem like a broken record at first, but as they get older, the distractions become less and the distance becomes clearer.

It's also a lot about them wanting to be with you. Off leash for us is more of an exploration walk, not really a purpose walk. When they're interested in smells, I stop with them, give them a chance to explore that area, do a little marking, ask for a few commands for a few treats and we head off.

With the "not too far", I also mix it up a lot. They'll be stopped up ahead and I may do a complete 180, or turn and head off to the left or right. I don't recall them, it's up to them to pay attention to me. This randomness of directions has them keeping their eyes on me to see which way we're headed.

It sounds like you're walking, off leash, with a purpose - to get to the ski area. Purpose walks for me are always on leash. It's sometimes different with just my shepherd but he sticks to me like glue. The three of them together, I want full control of all their actions if we're in a more populated area where there are going to be various human/dog encounters.

My boys are never allowed to interact with random dogs on trails, well not in the way most people allow them to sniff each other. They're recalled and stay with me. That physical contact is not necessary in my books. They can smell the other dogs from a distance.

It may sound oxy-moronic but my most important socialization is teaching my dogs to ignore other dogs. Unless they're in our yard or we head out with specific dogs, they're treated pretty much like wildlife or livestock - you don't go anywhere near them.

As well, choice of venue is important to me. Some of these trails can be as bad as dog parks, even worse, with owners' lack of control and letting the dog run "free". We avoid them like the plague.

I think off leash will always have its challenges. To me, the pack work you do with the dogs, in all situations - in the house, in the yard, fenced in areas or in the open wilderness, and the reinforcement of trained commands - recall and loose leash, by my side walking being the most important - has the biggest impact.

Thanks everyone. I think I will start using the whistle recall again. I had really good success using it before with my husky, and then the whistle broke (cracked) and I haven't replaced it. And CJ, I was hoping you'd weigh in, with your experience with a pack on the trails.

I know I'm asking for a lot. I think I may have to rethink expectations and just not allow ANY interaction with unknown dogs. I truly aspire to be like that musher loose running 20 sled dogs where the dogs appear to be simply neutral to other dogs and people, and yet are under complete control at intersections and such in the city. That is my ultimate 'ideal'. My dogs live in a pack of four- they do not need other 'doggie' or human friends.

So- to stop the constant 'nagging' (come, too far, wait etc.) I need to re-enforce the distance command, adding in a recall if there is a distraction like another dog?

What methods do you use to train the dogs to stay with you after a recall when a distraction (other dog) is present? Currently I use luring with food or a tug- constant 'treat dispenser' type stuff, with a 'yes' and release after the distraction is past. I will correct verbally for breaking focus. I don't like to collar grab in general unless I have to (other dog is approaching aggressively or overly forward).

I think I'll start working on this stuff one at a time- in a dog-busy area where I can distance myself from the distractions. I'm going to post video of each individual dog first. Hopefully, moving on to the pack work once we've gotten each individual dog responding appropriately.

The end goal? To be out and about with my whole pack of three and be totally within ourselves. Register but not react to any other dogs, people, horses, etc. Just enjoy our pack run/walk/ski as a unit. With minimal commands needed.

 Quote: Kiersten Lippman

The end goal? To be out and about with my whole pack of three and be totally within ourselves.

What a beautiful end goal. I love the way you put that. When I'm out there with my boys I couldn't be in a happier place.

 Quote: Kiersten Lippman

I think I may have to rethink expectations and just not allow ANY interaction with unknown dogs

The beauty of this is that it makes it black and white for the dog. Not… "Oh look, there's a friend, I can forget all my manners and go play this time, but next time I have to ignore them." Corrections and redirection can get really confusing especially if there is a lot of interest there.

If we come up on dogs we know, the boys stay by my side until we head out together, if that's the case, and once we're moving they're free to interact and continue to explore. The focus is then more on the environment as opposed to the buddy dogs that may be in it. If we're not carrying on together, the visual is all they get.

 Quote: Kiersten Lippman

So- to stop the constant 'nagging' (come, too far, wait etc.) I need to re-enforce the distance command, adding in a recall if there is a distraction like another dog?

To me, 3 totally differently commands not to be confused or diluted with each other. "Not too far" is simply that, ambling along, no danger in sight and before they get out of sight. Could be heading into a blind corner or a lot more leeway in an open field. A lot of fun to teach but some basic pack structure needs to be in place.

Recall only when you want them right back to you. And "Wait" would be to hold a command if they're getting antsy, such as a sit as people are passing or as you're having them individually go through a specific area - under a fence, through a culvert, over a cattle guard.

But yes, commands to be trained and proofed, just like any other before they are named. And reinforced each and every outing.

 Quote: Kiersten Lippman

What methods do you use to train the dogs to stay with you after a recall when a distraction (other dog) is present?

Sheer love and respect, lol. Not quite. Their sits are all solid under dog distractions though. The husky can get a pretty nonchalant attitude once in a while and he doesn't wear an e-collar so if there's even a hint that his huskiness is going to get the best of him, he's snapped to a leash. Not often, which is why he doesn't wear an e-collar, but he can get onto a one track focus when he puts his sweet little mind to it and rather than compete in a highly charged situation, I'd rather just manage it.

The other two, as well, will rarely make a move. A quick "Uh Uh" is usually enough to snap them out of a focus they may have on a dog. A quick vibrate in this situation will bring them right to my side, if they're not already there. Again, these are all trained at home with lots of treats and toy rewards to gain the understanding. And the practical understanding is reinforced many times without a true distraction before I let up on total management (leashing up and removing them).

They are never allowed to make contact with another dog without a release.

 Quote: Kiersten Lippman

I think I'll start working on this stuff one at a time

Absolutely, it's the only way to do it. You need that bond of working together and developing the understanding individually before you can ever hope to apply it to a pack with reliability.

They cue a lot off each other (good and bad behavior) but personally, I don't trust what they say to each other sometimes. I want them to be absolutely clear what it is I am saying and that only comes from my understanding of their individual understanding. I hope that makes sense.

 Quote: Kiersten Lippman

in a dog-busy area where I can distance myself from the distractions

There's actually a lot of training you can do before you get to the unknown dog distractions. Not sure how tightly bonded your pack is but playing with one and having the other two remain in a sit or down is a great beginning. And mix that up, play with two and have one remain off to the side.

It can be highly stimulating, especially for the younger ones. Not breaking those commands would tell me they're ready to move onto the distance work in dog busy areas.