The trick is to keep the dog from becoming "collar smart" Too many people get the collar, put it on the dog, and start correcting. The dog very quickly learns that when the collar is on he must behave, but when it is off it's a free-for-him.
If used correctly you do not need the collar every time the dog is out for his whole life, only during training and for touch ups.

I never understood what was soooo wrong with a dog being collar smart. What the heck is wrong with it? You don't think it happens with pinch, choke, head halter, any tool in dog training? I actually like it when a dog is collar smart, oh no, they might listen at a higher percentage of the time.

Some REALLY nice dogs wear a collar, yet almost never need a correction from it. Would you prefer nagging, chasing and trying to fix a problem that wouldn't exist if they had the collar on?

Not to be anthropomorphic, but the average teenager will act much differently when Mom or Dad is in a car with them then if they were with only their friends. Why is that? Could it be supervision and control? What's so wrong with that?

Other than a dog sport or competition that REQUIRES the dog to be without a collar, what's the problem with leaving it on????

Ditto, on the above post of Josh. If your dog will only respect the e-collar in order to tow the line then what is wrong with doing something pro active such as putting the darn thing on.

Collar wise ... Dogs are dumb but not that dumb as to not understand that the e-collar means it better behave and do as you taught the dog in the manual manner.

Hey, when I am out for a walk with any of my dogs that are elec trained and the tt is not on I fake it by taking whatever collar they have on and pretend to cut the contacts through their coat.

If doing something that prevents tragedy or a dumb butt dog scaring someone that does not deserve to be harassed by an animal, then this as Josh says is fine in my books all day and night long.

Sometimes folks take all the results they see in a trial or public demo when the dog is off leash or not with the TT on and believe all this off leash crap.

Trials are only tests that allow us the trainers to go back on Monday with the collars be they electric or otherwise and TRAIN for the next test.

Jerry

You are both right in that there is nothing wrong in a dog always wearing it's collar, whatever kind. But I prefer my dogs to obey whether they have their collar on or not. What happens when the dogs slips out of the kennel or through the door and takes off? My dogs will come back, the collar smart dog? I don't think so.
I am very careful with my e-collars to prevent my dogs from knowing that the correction came from that particular collar. Dog's are not that dumb, granted, but our job as trainers is to be smarter than the dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

In another place on this Forum I've posted a list of myths about the Eocllar. Here's one of them.

MYTH: If I use an Ecollar to train my dog, I’ll have to use it all the time.

FACT: In this regard the Ecollar is no different than any other type of training device. If you want perfect performance all the time with leash training then you’d better keep the leash on all the time. If you want perfect performance with an Ecollar then you’d better keep it on all the time. But most people are perfectly happy with performance that’s only 99% perfect. And so after your dog is responding reliably to the Ecollar you can take it off until you notice a decline in performance. Then you’ll have to do some refresher training to bring the performance back up. But this is no different than with any other type of training.

As for a dog escaping out the door, if you've laid the proper foundation he should recall. But why haven't you trained him not to escape out the door?

Here's something I've written to help people wean their dog off the Ecollar if they think that's important.

WEANING THE DOG OFF THE ECOLLAR

Gaining Reliability

The reason that dogs don't obey all the time is that they are gamblers. "Let's see if I can do what I wanna do THIS time!"

I recommend this method to ensure reliability. BTW either a dog is reliable or he's not. Reliability means 100%. My bottom line is that if the dog is off leash and he's not wearing the Ecollar you can't give him a correction and therefore you can't guarantee reliability. Some people don't need reliability but others, particularly those with Search and Rescue dogs, Personal Protection dogs or Police Service Dogs; DO need reliability. But just because you own a pet, rather than a working dog, doesn't mean that you too, can't have a reliable dog.

When you start training there's a temptation to "Let's see if he's getting it." That is to give a command and not give a stimulation. Usually, if you've been following my protocol, the dog WILL perform. But you've just taught him a valuable lesson, one that will cause you grief later on, even though it's not apparent now. It just takes one of these "tests" (more "tests" is worse) to teach the dog this lesson. This lesson is that a stimulation doesn't always come when the command is given. When this occurs before the dog has the habit of performing every time, it can end in an undesirable result, unreliability.

Automatic Corrections

I recommend that people use "automatic corrections" that is they give a stimulation EVERY time they give a command, even if the dog is in the act of performing the movement, for the first two months of their training. That means 60 days of working the dog, not 60 days, elapsed time. At the end of those 60 days give a command but don't give a stimulation. As long as the dog performs you're OK. Start a count and if you get to 30 days (of training, not 30 calendar days) and you haven't had to give a stimulation because the dog didn't perform, you can remove the Ecollar. But if just once the dog didn't perform and you had to give him a stimulation along with a second command, start your count over again.

Restarting Your Count

At some point later on, your dog will gamble. That is he'll be more interested in doing what he wants to do than obeying your command. When he does this put the Ecollar back on for a week of automatic stimulations. Then you can start your 30-day count again.

For those working dogs mentioned above, Search and Rescue dogs, Personal Protection dogs and Police Service Dogs I recommend that they wear the Ecollar all the time, when they're deployed. For those dogs we often can't afford nor have time for a second command.

How Reliable is Reliable Enough?

This is a question that only you can answer. If you don’t mind having to call your dog three times then neither do I. But it’s not acceptable for a police service dog and can cause serious problems with SAR dogs and pets as well. If it takes three commands to get your dog to sit as he runs toward a highway, you might find that when he finally does comply he’s in the middle of the road.

If you have the dog wear the Ecollar as long as he’s outside the home or whenever he deploys you have the ability to correct him if he doesn’t perform. If the Ecollar is back home, you can’t.

I’ve been asked a few times if 60 days of automatic stimulations is really necessary. I’ve found that it’s not always necessary with every dog. But I’ve found that all dogs respond if it’s done this way. YOUR dog might only need 45 days or 30 days of automatic stimulations but then some people will assume that because their dog is working OK that he only need 20 days. The result of cutting this corner is unreliability.

I wasn't in any way saying that my dogs don't have a recall or that I think that the collar needs to be used 100% of the time. My dogs are also taught not to bolt from their kennels, however, my client Joe Bloe's dog maybe doesn't have the same training. My point was that the e-collar does NOT need to used all the time if you train with it correctly. If used properly the dog won't make the correlation between collar on/obey, collar off/screw you. The piss poor dog training referred to would be what creates a dog that only obeys when the collar is on. In that respect, I agree with you, but I think that my post may have been misread and taken out of context.
At any rate, I use the e-collar on all of my personal dogs and promote it to most of my clients. I train most in-kennel dogs with it (with the owners permission) and use it for touch ups on in-kennel repeats and my own dogs. I do not think, however, that the dog should have to wear the collar any time he is out of the house/kennel in order to obey. I also know that it is possible to achieve reliability w/o constant wear with good training and good upkeep of that training. The dog needs to learn to respect the handler, not the equipment. And handlers need to learn how to properly use their tools.

Thanks for the replies to my post on the e collar.I got some good advice that I will,put to use. Jerry

I have been using Ecollars for 25 years (not the same dog!!). You can avoid having a collar wise do by leaving it on all the time till you can go 30 days without using the collar on the dog. If it bothers you to have it on then take a scarf and tie it around the dogs neck and most people will not know you have it on.

By having it on all the time you can train 100% in all situations. I train in New York City and use all distractions to help in training.

Take off the collar at night or when you are at home so the dog becomes use to having it not on. But leave it on and you will not have a collar wise dog. In the past I use to take it off as I did not want people asking what is that. I now just cover it up and go without a leash.