I copied this from another thread so I could get the attention of the trackers in the group. I've read most of the threads in this category, but tracking seems to be unique from situation to situation, and I haven't found a scenario identical to what I think I'm seeing.

Sadie and I started tracking two Sundays ago. We started on a track about 30 ft w/ one soft turn. By the next Sunday, our last track was approx 100 ft w/ two turns.We love tracking so much that we are now doing a short track every morning before I go to work. I hope that is not too much, but Sadie hasn't regressed any, or refused, so it feels right (Experienced trackers please weigh in, if nec.). She now knows what is about to happen, so I've quit trenching and started lengthening my stride a little, about 6 inches toe to heel, but I'm still baiting each step.

Now that she knows what's up, even though I've eliminated the reward at the end, she is pulling and skipping baits. I've been reversing and letting her retrack, since there is still bait, and she is a little calmer and more thorough the second time. Because of this, our head trainer suggested that I use his tactic of laying an incentive trail, but I have two concerns; will that form a behavior that can't be transferred for trialing, and, she is SOOO motivated for the new bait that I'm using that I'm afraid it won't slow her down at all. I'm thinking about decreasing the amount of bait on the track, but we're beginners and I don't want to screw up. Should I change to a lower value treat before I progress anymore?

There are others here that have more experience than I do tracking, and I'm sure they will weigh in, so take this FWIW, maybe not much.

First, a couple of questions:

How old is Sadie?

I'm confused in that you think the treat value may be too high, but she is skipping baited steps. This is a bit contradictory. Can you clarify whether she is losing the trail when she is skipping baits?

Why are you taking her back to the same track if she is successful?

Why did you eliminate the treat at the end of the trail?

Training every day with Sadie is not too much at all. I would say twice a day would be fine, as long as she doesn't get tired or bored. You have to read your dog here. You always want to end while the dog still wants more, building that drive for the next venue. At the end of the day, I will even chuck a ball out into the training field and not allow the dog to go after it. Who knows if it works, but it can't hurt IMO.

In my limited experience, if the dog is tracking the disturbed ground over the bait, you can definitely space out the bait, or remove it from the trail and just place a jackpot at the end. I typically train using just a jackpot at the end, right from the start, but I understand the baited steps technique, and it absolutely makes sense. I think you are safe opening up the distance between baited steps, but for now, I would keep your steps close together, just like you are doing.

I use the leash to slow the dog down at first. I have found that through experience, they will slow down on their own when they realize they are blowing turns. This may be an old school method, so YMMV. I always start with soft turns, and sharpen them up over time to get the dog used to turning to follow the trail. Once they know that a sharp turn may be coming up, they will start to anticipate the need to turn, which will slow them down.

I never allow a dog a second chance at a trail, especially if it has already been successful on that trail. I want them knowing that they have to get it right the first time. There is no second chance. I always set up a simple trail to finish the day on a fun note, so if the dog bombs a harder trail, we head to the simple one and then end the day, and then re-think our next training venue to set the dog up for success.

Have fun! Tracking is a blast

 Quote: David Winners

How old is Sadie?

I'm confused in that you think the treat value may be too high, but she is skipping baited steps. This is a bit contradictory. Can you clarify whether she is losing the trail when she is skipping baits?

Why are you taking her back to the same track if she is successful?

Why did you eliminate the treat at the end of the trail?

Sadie's almost four. I adopted her at 2.5. She had only basic OB when I got her, and she is my first working dog, so we are learning together, and it's truly a barrel of monkeys!
She is not losing the track; she's blowing through it to get to the end (hence removing the jackpot, which was suggested to me by the pro we train with, as well as some of the threads here}.

The reason I initially started going back over the track was to see if she was trailing the disturbed grass or just rooting for treats. Now, with the skipped baits, I was doing it to let her access the remainder. I do it backwards so she doesn't realize it's the same one. She seems to enjoy it and is more thorough on the way back. That's why I asked about it; is it really a mistake? My trainer didn't freak when he saw me do it, but he did suggest the incentive track instead.

The reason I feel that the new treats are too valuable is twofold; One, she zones out and has to be reeled in so she can focus, and two, she blows through the mission, whatever it may be, to access the reward. Granted, I need to slow down and be more mindful as well.

Thanks for the great response, D! Please respond again, now that you have more info.

P.S. Her prey drive is still a work-in-progrss, but her food drive is OVER THE TOP.

Edited by Duane Hull (04/24/2012 07:47 PM)
Edit reason: added PS

I have a speep tracker.

I usualy start with a warm up shalow serpentine track, then I can go to a longer track.

If I want him to get a the baits I have to use tuna. But now most of the time I use random spacing of the baits and if he miss the but stay on the track I don't mind it.

Harley can now do a track over 150m at a ok pace only after a super fast one. He need time to calm down first.

Hey Duane, some of the things that helped me with this had to do with the track and some were with my handling. The biggest one with my handling was to lean back. Its a lot easier to keep a nice pace and it seems to just make it clear to my dog that he's not going to get anywhere pulling like that. If your leaning forward, like trying to see what she's doing, I'm always just that little bit off balance so the line pressure changes, and he starts speeding up.

Start the track, slowly and calmly. Don't let her launch into the scent pad at the beginning. Settle her down before you start so you're not fighting the speed on the very first step.

Start teaching articles off the track. Hunting for a lot of articles on a track when she understands them helps slow things down. Hunting for things on the track in general was very helpful with my dog. I started off semi-burying food every 10 yards or so and then switched to toys because thats what he cares more about.

I don't know how many tracks Sadie has done Duane, but as they start gaining confidence its natural for them to speed up. Don't make it too easy. Try to hide the bait a little, down into the grass a little, or down into the dirt a little so she's using her nose and not looking for it so much.

Keep getting help. Every different track seems to bring changes that your trainer see's, and you and I both miss. Its great to have the next track planned so that your building on what just went well or changing to help with what didnt.

 Quote: steve strom

I don't know how many tracks Sadie has done Duane, but as they start gaining confidence its natural for them to speed up. Don't make it too easy. Try to hide the bait a little, down into the grass a little, or down into the dirt a little so she's using her nose and not looking for it so much.

Dude, it's almost like you're there!
Our club usually starts with short straight tracks, but as soon as they saw her first one, they taught me how to do a soft turn. After three short tracks, Sadie was blowing through them, so I added a second turn and then started adding more distance. She masters them all very quickly, so it's hard not to let her progress. We started out trenching, then I went to toe-to-heel steps, and now I've started spacing them a little; still no challenge for the nose.
I isolate her while I lay the track, walk her, excrete her, heel her, sit her, and everything else I can think of while it ages, sit her before the pad, but nothing works. If she sees me get the flags from the garage or truck, she knows she's gonna track, and that's that (I wish she had that kind of drive for the sleeve!). After one or two seconds on the pad, she's off, even with most of the food left behind. Is this where the three scent pads come in, and, if so, how do you do it?
I was taught, in the beginning, to stay at her shoulder, which makes it hard to hold her back. Should I start moving back on the leash? It's still early in our development, so I've been afraid that if I don't watch her closely, she might lose the trail and thus form a bad habit (losing and finding, causing big head swings) that I have to undo.
I don't know how relevant the bait is at this point. She seems to care less if she doesn't find it all; she wants to go down the track. Therefore, I don't know if burying the bait would help; she may not slow down to find it. I need to try it.
I like your suggestion about articles, and I'd already decided to teach them off the track. I don't know how, so that I'll have to study. At the point where I get them on the track, I may be able to eliminate the baits altogether.
I always thought she would love tracking; I never dreamed she would catch on this fast. Her progress is overwhelming for me. I can't learn fast enough to keep up with her.

Ask your club about using 2 lines as plow lines. You don't go far back, you're still right up close. The scent pads are usually before you start going forward on tracks, the first step for using her nose and associating the crushed grass or disturbed dirt with finding the food.

One guy in the club uses plow reins; the head trainer prefers a 6' held close to the shoulder for beginners. He tracks his hardest dog on a prong and suggested that for Sadie, but I would like to try some other things to slow her down before going to a prong.
I got some wonderful advice in a pm about backing up to some more basic stuff before going any further. There's so much info and so many conflicting theories, and of course Sadie is jumping in the air and spinning, saying "Let's go!", thus it's hard not to get ahead of myself.

If the prong will slow her down & not shut her down..(that depends on the dogs temperment & drive)...it might be the best & quickest & easiest way to reduce her speed before it becomes any more ingrained.

That's the catch...
When Sadie came to me, she loved the prong (and I mean BANANAS) because she knew we were going for a walk. As we have trained more and more on OB, the prong has become just okay. I am already working on rebuilding her drive for it, but that means giving very careful consideration to when and where I use it. I am going to try the other stuff you suggested before I "resort" to it, if that makes any sense. Impetuous use of it may shut her down, or at least cause avoidance for the prong, and not just for tracking. It could undo a lot of what we've accomplished in other areas.