More focused heeling questions
#369705 - 11/24/2012 08:37 PM |
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You guys have helped me with Marco's focused heeling and it's coming along pretty well. His focus lasts a little longer each time we work on it. Now I have one issue and a couple of questions. The issue is that he tends to sit crooked when we stop with his butt too far away. And sometimes he will walk more in that position too. The trainer at our club told me that as I stop walking to reach down with my left hand and basically push his rear towards me to keep it in place. When I do that he gets really distracted looking back and then sometimes jumps way out of position.
Other questions: how do I teach him to come to the heel position from wherever he happens to be? And is it too soon to start that?
The last couple times I've worked on heeling I decided to try using the ball instead of food and it gets him into a higher drive when I do it. I hold it up near my shoulder with my left hand and it really increases his focus but he also tends to jump up trying to get it. He's not a very high drive dog so I would like to use this to build his drive but how do I get more control with it?
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369707 - 11/24/2012 09:03 PM |
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When you reward with food do you reward with your left hand? This could be the reason he's moving around when you try to push his backside toward you? When you bring him to heel try rewarding directly above his head in line with sitting straight if you know what I mean? if the reward is off to the side at all his bum will swing around with his head? just what I've found happens.
I also teach my dogs to come to heel basically as soon as I start heeling or even before so they get used to being there and coming into heel only as a game sort of fun at first. How you train depends on how you want the dog to do it. some people have the dogs spin around from the front and get into position, I have them go behind me and come to heel, I use luring and if needed help from leash pressure to teach the dog to go around me and come to heel and once they understand what I want then I start getting them to do it from further away, out behind me as long as they understand they're looking for the left leg.
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369708 - 11/24/2012 09:49 PM |
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Thanks Brad. I reward with my right hand and directly above his head. The trainer helped me correct that right off the bat. It seems like it feels natural for him to swing his rear out like that because of the position his head is in to focus on me. That's just a feeling I get.
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369709 - 11/24/2012 10:41 PM |
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You heel on the left, right? Just wanted to check, because when you feed with the right your hand has to come across your body to the dog which in some cases leads to the dog anticipating and moving toward the treat coming from the opposite side of your body. Normally they come across the front of your body a little and their butt swings out because of this, that's why i always feed rewards with my left while heeling as it keeps the dog straight and nice on the left side of your body. Once again just my experiences. Hopefully someone else might have some more helpful advice. Really cannot stress how great the focused heeling DVD.
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369711 - 11/25/2012 12:02 AM |
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Are you training with markers? If so then you ONLY reward when the dog is giving the behavior you want. I he jumps up to get the reward after you mark or stands on his head after you mark, it doesn't matter. He did the behavior your asking for and the mark is as good as a release.
If you can work against a wall or fence that will help keep him from swinging his butt out when he sits.
You also may be moving to fast, as in progress, not speed. Work on the focus from a "correct" basic position and only when that is solid do you take even one step. Then it's ONLY one step, mark and reward. don't even put the sit in till that one step is good. Work up to 3 or 4 steps then put the steps in "randomly".
You may be able to heel across the whole training field but if that sit is still wrong then you've progressed to quickly.
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369715 - 11/25/2012 07:41 AM |
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I guess I need to explain more. Everyone here helped me start out. I waited until I got good focus before I started taking any steps. At first when I would take any steps he would immediately stop focusing on me and was forging ahead alot. So I got help with that here too. Now I am at the point where I get really good focus for several steps before he looks away. If I say "foose" he refocuses. The issue is with him sitting crooked and occasionally walking that way too. After reading Brad's second post I think it may be because I'm rewarding with my right hand. He's anticipating it coming from that direction. I have been doing that because I have the leash in my left hand to give a little pop on the leash as a correction when he forges ahead and it seems like it would be awkward to get the treat out of the treat bag with the leash in my hand and him right up against me on that side. How do I do that? I would love to get the heeling dvd but money is extremely tight right now.
Bob, I am training with markers and only rewarding when he gives the exact behavior I want and I am varying the reward as in a few steps, reward, one step, reward, etc. I have the basic position down well, but it's me moving to him when he's in a sit. I haven't tried to teach him to come to that position on his own yet. How do I start teaching that? I have also tried working up against a wall but it seems to really distract him alot. Maybe I should keep trying it and he'll get used to it. He only jumps up the last couple times I tried working on heeling when I started trying using the ball instead of food. And I do not reward when he does that. That's why I was asking about using the ball instead of food because he suddenly is showing a much higher drive for the ball then he ever has before. I get really good focus for longer periods of time with it. It's just that he jumps up at first trying to get at it but after I get him to understand we're working on heeling that usually stops.
Also, just thinking about the sit. I don't think I even tried to make him do that. He just does it when I stop most of the time. Occasionally he doesn't, he'll stay standing and then I have started to tell him sit in those instances.
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369732 - 11/25/2012 03:50 PM |
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I have the leash in my right hand usually when I'm heeling, like you said it's very awkward to get bait and reward with the leash in your hand, so if they need a pop it come more from the side to redirect their focus and I used the bait to lure them into the proper heeling position and to stay there. The ball's a good idea, and I use it with my boy who's ball crazy, if he's jumping up at first you just have to remind him of the rules. I started out by putting my boy in a sit and showing him the ball he'd jump up straight away coming for it but made him sit then he got it slowly built him up to the point where I can bounce it in front of him and swing it around without him moving, only thing I haven't been able to stop is him chasing if i throw it. So teach your to settle with the ball a bit and let him focus on you and heel if it was me I would probably reward with the ball a little frequently at first so he learns quickly if he does it right he gets it.
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369898 - 11/28/2012 07:38 PM |
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Kory just saw your other post, focused heeling seems like a very difficult thing to teach, and from my own experience even harder if you've taught heel before without the focus. So try this, it's in the videos, get your boy and walk along a wall in heel (the walls there so he has to walk straight) and just lead him along one step at first with his head up in the air using bait to get him to keep it up. Do this for awhile so he gets used to walking along with his head up once he's keeping his head up decide on where you want him to focus while he's heeling get his focus on this point while standing still then go one step, then two etc you get the point. Also as you may have already taught him heel without focus use a new word so he realizes this is something different, once you're sure he understands where you want his focus and he knows to focus on that point even while on the move you can start adding corrections for him failing to focus. It takes awhile but you will get it!
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369899 - 11/28/2012 07:52 PM |
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Brad, I've tried using a wall a few times. It seems to freak him out and he tries to go backwards and get out like he feels trapped or something.
I have not taught him any other heeling before so the command shouldn't be an issue.
I guess I will try the wall some more. Maybe he'll get used to it.
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Re: More focused heeling questions
[Re: Kory Fox ]
#369900 - 11/28/2012 08:24 PM |
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Ok Kory, sorry I thought he'd already done some heeling. Maybe try luring him along and then bring him to the wall so he doesn't freak as he's concentrating on something else? Best of luck I'm sure you'll get there!
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