Recently, my new pup Lucy has started barking at cars while crated in my car. When I first got her, at around twelve weeks old, she did not seem to notice other traffic on the road, and would lay down and chew on one of her toys in the crate. But, about two weeks ago, she started barking while looking out the window. I thought she was barking at her own reflection, but eventually she started looking at a car out the front window, and barking at it all the way past us as it sped by. Now, she does this ALL the time- barking at one car until she fixates on another one, and on, and on....

Also, an interesting aspect of this problem is that she gets more and more antsy as the process of getting going progresses. For example, if I am to sit in the car w/o it running, she is fine and will even lay down calmly. Keys out- she sits up. Car started- she scans for intruders. Put the car in gear- bark, bark, bark, bark...I have also noticed that she can calm down if stopped at an intersection (maybe 40% of the time), but once moving again the barking is on!

Questions:

1. Do you think that she started this because she developed better eyesight?

2. Are all dogs uneasy in the car while the vehicle is moving? I could see how they would be, but I know some dogs ride fine in the car.

3. What would you suggest to combat this problem?

I have searched around on the forum to try to find a course of action, and have come up with the following ideas to try.

1. Have my fiance drive while I sit outside the kennel and mark and reward when she is calm.

2. Correct her when she shows aggression.

While I am excited at the opportunity to teach her the "quiet" command, I am a little concerned about correcting her at such a young age (17 weeks). However, I know it is important to get this under control. What do you think about this plan, and how would you correct her, if at all?

 Quote: Rick Miller

1. Do you think that she started this because she developed better eyesight?

2. Are all dogs uneasy in the car while the vehicle is moving? I could see how they would be, but I know some dogs ride fine in the car.

3. What would you suggest to combat this problem?

If she only does it when the car is moving, and NOT when stopped at intersections could the car be causing her anxiety? Has she had any unpleasant car trips lately (i.e. a car trip that resulted in an unpleasant vet appoint or something)? I have had rescues that would start drooling and getting "car sick" before the car was even turned on because they obviously associated car trips with bad things happening such as abandonment.

And plenty of dogs LOVE riding in the car. My boy wants to ride everywhere with me, when slowing down or stopping he perks up to look around and sometimes enjoys barking at passerby's but when on a highway he happily stretches out for a nap.

I don't ever recall having had a problem with dogs barking when seeing other cars in general.

Sounds like it could be anxiety based. Have you thought about throwing a sheet over the crate so she can't see out? That may calm her and this may be a phase, if she forgets about barking and focuses on her chewies for a while, like she used to, that may fix the problem.

Cant help with training as Im the wordls worst trainer but just wanted to say to a dog a car is a rolling doghouse and needs to be defended from intruders and cars going by in her eyes probably fit the criteria. I feel your pain, my dog takes offenseto some cars. Good luck sounds like youve got a nice pup.

 Quote: Rick Miller

Recently, my new pup Lucy has started barking at cars while crated in my car. When I first got her, at around twelve weeks old, she did not seem to notice other traffic on the road, and would lay down and chew on one of her toys in the crate. But, about two weeks ago, she started barking while looking out the window. I thought she was barking at her own reflection, but eventually she started looking at a car out the front window, and barking at it all the way past us as it sped by. Now, she does this ALL the time- barking at one car until she fixates on another one, and on, and on....

Also, an interesting aspect of this problem is that she gets more and more antsy as the process of getting going progresses. For example, if I am to sit in the car w/o it running, she is fine and will even lay down calmly. Keys out- she sits up. Car started- she scans for intruders. Put the car in gear- bark, bark, bark, bark...I have also noticed that she can calm down if stopped at an intersection (maybe 40% of the time), but once moving again the barking is on!

Questions:

1. Do you think that she started this because she developed better eyesight?

2. Are all dogs uneasy in the car while the vehicle is moving? I could see how they would be, but I know some dogs ride fine in the car.

Some dogs are fine, some are not. Most can be taught to be calm while in the car.

3. What would you suggest to combat this problem?

What type of training have you done with her? What is the purpose of this dog (pet, sport, protection, agility)?

Are you familiar with markers? Does she have any basic obedience commands started, like WATCH ME or DOWN? Have you performed any of these exercises while in the crate? In the crate in the car while shut off? While running, but stationary?

I have searched around on the forum to try to find a course of action, and have come up with the following ideas to try.

1. Have my fiance drive while I sit outside the kennel and mark and reward when she is calm.

Babysteps... don't move to far too fast.

2. Correct her when she shows aggression.

I would discourage corrections at 17 weeks old.

While I am excited at the opportunity to teach her the "quiet" command, I am a little concerned about correcting her at such a young age (17 weeks). However, I know it is important to get this under control. What do you think about this plan, and how would you correct her, if at all?

IMHO, I would start by teaching a solid DOWN. A dog lying in a crate can't see out as well and is less likely to respond to stimuli outside the car. The idea is to give her something to do besides be a jerk. You can teach her that she has to be quiet in the down, so you wouldn't need a separate command, unless that is going to interfere with another command (such as a DOWN GUARD).

I would have the DOWN solid, and quiet, in the kitchen, or whatever distraction free environment you train, and then add the crate (with a blanket if you prefer). Work on the down in the crate with no distractions. Then add distractions. Then move the crate to the car in the garage, then in the driveway, then with the car running. Anytime you see her starting to break, take a step back and re-enforce the good behavior.

Make it fun, and be sure to keep the DOWN duration short to begin with, and then mix up the duration of the DOWN, so she never knows how long she will have to wait for the reward.

During this time, I would not take her for rides, and if it is necessary, don't give the down command until she is ready for success. You don't want her to develop a habit of blowing you off.

After she has the DOWN solid in the crate, in the car, with it running, you can have someone else drive while you are in the back with her. Start off very short, and avoid situations that will stimulate her past her threshold and cause her to break. Mark and treat positive actions. You can also use a WATCH ME here to get her attention. A slight pop on a flat collar is all the correction I would give, and I would avoid it if possible, until she is older.


I know this sounds like a long an arduous task, but if you train regularly, it will move along quickly. Just don't rush, and don't be afraid to back up a step or two if things aren't working out.

All just MHO.

I do teach my dogs a QUIET command, but I teach a SPEAK command first. Let me know if you want to know how I do that.

Best of luck with your girl!

Hi Rick,
I'm confused because it sounds like two different issues. The first part of your post talks about the cars outside being the trigger. My dog as a puppy was quick to recognize landmarks and within a few weeks of joining me was bouncing around in his crate barking his head off but never did I think aggression he was just beside himself with joy as only a puppy can be whenever a familiar landmark alerted him to a place he enjoyed.

For that, I marked and rewarded quiet and ignored the cacophony of noise and would never let him out of the car until he showed some semblance of control. Within a few months it was down to a dull roar and by a year and a half a verbal command stopped the madness.

I'm not so sure that will work for you and I would steer clear of correction until you figure out what the motivator is. IMO fixation is never good, so I second cover the crate, if for no other reason than to break the pattern which she seems to be in.

Reading further into your post it sounds like the trigger is the actual movement of the car. Something that jumped out at me was "Car started- she scans for intruders." Why do you think that? Is she showing other behaviors outside the car that would lead you to believe that? I ask because I don't know what to think....to me its a far stretch from a puppy barking in a car to thinking aggression, fixation and scanning for intruders.

I wish I could be more help but other than cover the crate and advise not to correct her(not fair when you don't know what she's reacting to.....what if she is car sick?); I would definitely need more info on her behavior in other areas of her life to offer a valid opinion.

I looked at your post from when you got her. She is really cute!!

Ooops forgot to add others with far more experience may be better equipped to direct you as David just did.



Edited by Sheila Buckley (04/01/2013 08:53 PM)
Edit reason: David's Fab Response

My English shepherd did a bunch of car guarding type behavior at around 4-6 mos. For us it seemed that lots more car rides were the answer. Esoecially car rides where the dog never gets out of the car, like going to the supermarket.
Now he just sleeps. He knows there will be nothing asked of him, he often lies on the floor mat and just snores.

Rick I know this forum is about dogs and dog training but I have to wonder if you are a programmer or an engineer.

Dogs are often very sensitive and emotional creatures. Young female dogs even more so, insecurity and fear and irrational emotion and such. It isn't all about logic or eye sight or passing objects.

Thank you, everyone for your interest and advice! I will try to address everyone if I can...

Let's get this one out of the way:

 Quote: Sonya Anderson

Rick I know this forum is about dogs and dog training but I have to wonder if you are a programmer or an engineer.

I wonder what gave you that impression?! I am mechanically inept (actually one of the most unhandy people I know); I think if you knew me better, you would see that either of these professions would be impossible for me!

David, thank you so much for walking through that with me! I really appreciate it...this sounds like a perfect plan.

To give you (and others) some background, as requested, on Lucy- she is a pet and a companion animal for me. I have always loved dogs, and always intend to keep one (or two!). We have been training using the Ellis food DVD for about a month now, and she has learned all the commands with body language/luring. We are just starting to fade the non-verbal and add commands. I think training the commands in the crate is a great idea, and I will certainly incorporate it!

Lucy goes to work with me every day, which is about a 15-20 minute commute. She has no bad associations with the crate or the car that I can remember, and she is very used to this routine. In fact, she has recently started giving up the fight when it comes to crating in general. Until about a week ago, she would not whine in the crate, but when it was time to put her in, she would definitely avoid it...it was just like Ed said in the puppy video: you treat them every time going in the kennel, but eventually they figure it out! What I started to do was give her lots of love after placing her right in front of the kennel, then "helping" her through the door while saying "kennel." Then, when she turns around and faces the door, I give her more love and say "good kennel." This has caused her to stop fighting going in, and being calm right away when she gets in!

I include this to hopefully address some of Sonya's concern. I don't think this behavior is fundamentally oriented around any bad associations with the car or car sickness, rather it is the whooshing by of all the cars that is triggering it. However, it is occurring at the point where the car starts moving, so she is probably getting uneasy either as a result of not liking the feeling of the car moving or the association of the feeling of motion with the experience of craziness she is anticipating. In other words, IMO, the motion is secondary. Which leads me to Sheila's excellent inquiry:

 Quote: Sheila Buckley

Hi Rick,
I'm confused because it sounds like two different issues. The first part of your post talks about the cars outside being the trigger. My dog as a puppy was quick to recognize landmarks and within a few weeks of joining me was bouncing around in his crate barking his head off but never did I think aggression he was just beside himself with joy as only a puppy can be whenever a familiar landmark alerted him to a place he enjoyed.

I am sure she is not barking at landmarks, definitely the cars...however, I think her body language is kind of interesting- she will wag her tail as she is barking. Her ears are pointed straight up, but I don't believe her hair is raised (it is kind of hard to see her hackles from the rear-view mirror and through the crate). She almost seems to enjoy herself in the act of barking, but she seems very stressed when she is in between cars, as she searches for the next one to look at. The worst thing is if you are sitting in the middle of the road turning left as cars whiz by on both sides! This causes her to spin in a barking frenzy...not a pretty sight!

 Quote: Sheila Buckley

Reading further into your post it sounds like the trigger is the actual movement of the car. Something that jumped out at me was "Car started- she scans for intruders." Why do you think that? Is she showing other behaviors outside the car that would lead you to believe that? I ask because I don't know what to think....to me its a far stretch from a puppy barking in a car to thinking aggression, fixation and scanning for intruders.

Outside the car, she has barked or shown concern at cars that drive by on walks, as well as other dogs, and other people. I am not too worried about these issues comparatively because I am right there to take her mind off of these things, and she doesn't fixate on them. Also, the level of concern with things outside the car (or inside the car when we aren't moving) is not even comparable- the barks are completely different.

I use the words "scanning for intruders" to describe what I think she is feeling based on her actions as the process of getting going in the car developes- stirring in the kennel, looking around while whimpering and, finally as we get going, barking at parked cars which just 20 seconds ago were not an issue at all. I don't know what it is about the motion that activates this feeling in her, but as I mentioned before, sometimes she is able to settle down at an intersection when all the cars are sitting still. The moment the car rolls forward, the barking starts again!

I have used towels to cover the crate, but the problem there is, she will pull them through the crate, and then she can see again! What a rascal... So, I haven't covered up the crate for a few days, hoping the problem would correct itself, but here I am!

 Quote: Sheila Buckley

I looked at your post from when you got her. She is really cute!!

True that! And she is a very sweet girl!

I agree that it is a good idea to cover the kennel again...I just have to find a way to keep her from being able to get to whatever it is that I use...also, I think I will use a stuffed treat or even a rec bone to give her something to distract her, and she can put herself in a down! Perhaps we could go from a heavy fabric to a sheet, then bug netting and finally nothing at all. This would slowly introduce the visual distraction back to her...what do you all think about that idea?

Rick, where are you with "down"?

LIke the recall, this is a command that's very easy to screw up with inconsistency and rushing duration and distraction.

 Quote: David Winners

IMHO, I would start by teaching a solid DOWN. A dog lying in a crate can't see out as well and is less likely to respond to stimuli outside the car. The idea is to give her something to do besides be a jerk. .... I would have the DOWN solid, and quiet, in the kitchen, or whatever distraction free environment you train, and then add the crate (with a blanket if you prefer). Work on the down in the crate with no distractions. Then add distractions. Then move the crate to the car in the garage, then in the driveway, then with the car running. Anytime you see her starting to break, take a step back and re-enforce the good behavior.

Make it fun, and be sure to keep the DOWN duration short to begin with, and then mix up the duration of the DOWN, so she never knows how long she will have to wait for the reward.

During this time, I would not take her for rides, and if it is necessary, don't give the down command until she is ready for success. You don't want her to develop a habit of blowing you off.

After she has the DOWN solid in the crate, in the car, with it running, you can have someone else drive while you are in the back with her. Start off very short, and avoid situations that will stimulate her past her threshold and cause her to break. Mark and treat positive actions. You can also use a WATCH ME here to get her attention. A slight pop on a flat collar is all the correction I would give, and I would avoid it if possible, until she is older.


I know this sounds like a long an arduous task, but if you train regularly, it will move along quickly. Just don't rush, and don't be afraid to back up a step or two if things aren't working out.

Nice post.

PS

If you have any questions about introducing distraction (including venue) and duration, please ask.