Hi everyone - I'm going to try to keep this post as concise as possible while still giving you the big picture overview of the issues. I'm hoping for some advise and I know that this forum is always the best place to get good information. I also don't have 100% all of the facts - my mom does and she has copious notes - I am reporting what I know and can fill in added details from her in later posts if necessary.

I'm writing about my parents' lab Shiloh. He is a large lab: 100lbs normally when not completely fit, and low/mid 90s when in good condition. Due to his inability to have lots of exercise (explained below) he's mostly been around 100 lbs the past few years.

We adopted him from his former foster home in the summer of 2008 and they said they thought he was 9 yrs old. We believe now that he was a few years younger than that at the time. He smelled funny and his eyes were kind of glassy when we got him; we suspect he had been fed a low-quality kibble. My parents have fed him raw ever since and the smell and glassy eye issues went away after a month or so on good food. Other than occasional bouts of diarrhea (we believe he has a pretty sensitive digestive system), he's been good with this diet ever since. He didn't seem to do well with higher fat foods like pork riblets; his main foods have been small game hens and ground turkey I believe.

In the summer of 2009 he ruptured a disk in his back and was paralyzed from the waist down. He didn't have a great chance at recovery but he had an excellent, excellent neurologist who was able to clear out the debris. After 5+ months of recovery, he regained his ability to walk, though the rear right leg has always been the hardest for him to control. Some days have been better than others, seemingly based on the amount of inflammation around the spinal cord where the injury happened. He's been on Deramaxx for the inflammation, and occasionally Tramadol for pain.

Over this past summer he had a gradual, slow decline of his walking ability, particularly in the rear right. This had been expected to probably happen at some point. At his worst over the summer (after trying to chase a squirrel or something), he got down to maybe 60% of his "best" post-injury abilities. In early Oct, my parents took him to see his neurologist to see if there was anything else we could do. That's when all the trouble started, roughly 2 months ago.

The decision was made to try Prednisone rather than the non-steroidal anti-inflamatory Deramaxx, hoping it could clear out some of the inflamation around the spinal cord and give him some greater leg control. At that time they also discovered that he had some mast cell tumors which weren't huge problems yet but which will likely kill him eventually. The added hope was that the Prednisone would shrink the mast cells and make them less of an issue for a while, which it did. The mast cells shrunk a lot over the first few weeks so the vets were happy with the results from that.

Since that time, the primary problem is that we have had essentially a non-stop run of digestive issues, starting right when he returned home from the neurologist appointment. I should add that this is an overnight trip as the neurologist is 4 hours away. Locally my parents have been seeing two different general practice vets - two, because invariably Shiloh's weird health issues have been flaring up as soon as one was on their day off, often when both are on their days off.

I don't remember the symptoms exactly when they returned to town, though my mom has a pretty complete log. I believe he had diarrhea and maybe seemed nauseous. Throughout all of this though, he has hardly ever thrown up. Maybe only once or twice at most in the past 2 months. My parents had fed him some slightly different foods while they were out of town so at first they thought his problem was from that. He wasn't on the Prednisone yet as he was in his detox from Deramaxx at the time. I don't know if he'd started his prilosec (to protect his stomach from Prednisone) yet or not, though he may have since I believe he was supposed to be on the Prilosec for a few days before starting the Prednisone. So probably (my mom can clarify) he went off Deramaxx and on to Prilosec, with the intension of starting Prednisone a few days later.

Nevertheless, the local vet (possibily incorrectly) diagnosed him with Pancreatitis and had my parents switch to feeding him the horrible Royal Canin low-fat canned food, which was a disaster. I would add that while he has been eating some food since the beginning of his troubles in early Oct, I don't believe he has had a decent balanced meal since that trip to the neurologist.

Shiloh didn't like the Royal Canin and didn't want to eat it. It also gave him gas. After a few weeks of that, the vet finally recommended trying him on boiled chicken and cooked sweet potato - in a ratio of 3 parts potato to 1 part chicken. This gave him horrible gas and he quickly grew tired of it. My mom finally switched it 1 part of each and that helped, but he quickly grew tired of that ratio too and refused to eat any more of it. He only wanted the chicken.

Over the past month (approximately) they have gotten him onto more cooked ground turkey, cooked ground beef, and cooked ground buffalo, but almost strictly the meats with very little of anything else as he doesn't want the sweet potato any more.

Every time they try to add something, even very slowly, he gets diarrhea. They have been feeding him very small meals multiple times a day, which does help, but he quickly tires of a food and refuses to eat it. He is hungry though. He wants to eat but will look away from something (like ground turkey) that he has eaten for a few days, and only wants something new. Our speculation is that he is having nausea issues and becomes superstitious about the food he has been eating, but we are running out of novel protein sources.

We have tried THK Verve and Zeal, and the base mixes. I believe they all upset his digestive system. Slippery elm seems to help some, and he really, really likes the dog Sweet Spot sweet potato "ice cream". He has always liked them, but now even more so because he is hungry (and unable to eat much of his other meals). We suspect they may help soothe his stomach but that's just a guess.

He has lost a lot of weight - down to mid-80s now, though has somehow gained a pound or two since his lowest point. His musculature is weak from the lack of solid nutition so we really haven't seen any benefit, mobility-wise, from the Prednisone. He is far worse now than he was before we started down this path in Oct, though there are some days when he has eaten some decent calories and is then strong enough to walk more like "normal". The rest of the time he is just weak and tired.

Despite all this, he still seems to feel mostly like himself and in his face you can see he's still himself and not completely miserable. He wants to eat, he just can't bring himself to do it a lot of the time. We are reducing the Prednisone - I believe it went down again starting last night. My personal hypothesis is that the Prednisone, despite the Prilosec (and the Cerenia which he has been off and on through out this as well), is causing his apparent nausea. My hope is that if we get him off it and the Prilosec, and back on the Deramaxx, he'll be able to eat and return to something approaching "normal". At that point the mast cells will probably come back and kill him but at least he'll have a few good months before then. I believe my parents feel the same way, but it's their call not mine.

As of today, the vets are recommending euthanasia but it seems like the immediate problems have been caused by all their treatments so I'm not inclined to give them a lot of credibility at the moment. They also recommended Royal Canin hydrolyzed soy protein canned food yesterday, so it's hard for me to believe they know what they're doing.

Of course the other possibility is that his inability to eat regularly is not from the Prednisone at all but from the Mast Cells. I think there's no way to know until he's back off the Prednisone and the stomach has a chance to heal a bit and we can try him back on his original raw food (which he can't have while he's on the Prilosec). On the other hand, I don't believe we've seen any visual evidence of mast cell regrowth (he had/has one external and two internal, liver and speen, I think). So the Prednisone seems to be keeping them down at the moment.

I think I've covered the basics in this very long post. We know he's not going to recover and feel great and live another 3 years, and that sooner or later there will probably come a point where we have to euthanize him. We also are well aware of the good advise on this board that it is better to not wait too long for that day. However, while it might be wishful thinking, I don't believe any of us feel like this is that time yet. If we could just get some quality nutition in him for a few days, we believe that he'll have a few more good months in him.

As always, any advise and good thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Lastly, I should add that Shiloh has an incredibly strong will power. We knew at the time of his back injury that if any dog could make it through that, it would be him. The neurologist never thought he'd come back as far as he did after the severity of his back injury and has been amazed and thrilled at the results.

This is probably why even now, after 2 months of h#ll and not eating properly and not feeling great, he still has that look in his face like he hasn't given up and, for me personally, why I don't think his time has come yet.

Wow. I just want to say how much I admire your and your parents' heroic efforts with this old fellow. I have no practical medical advice to offer.

The one thing I'd suggest is that it may be worth probing the vets about what they would or could offer if the care transitioned to palliative-only care. Hospice care. If there is no goal of getting the dog "well," what can be done to minimize pain and, perhaps, boost appetitie. And then I'd be in the mode of giving the dog anything he wanted to eat, without regard to "what's good for him." Maybe he never gets back to a raw diet, or even a "balanced" diet. At this point in life, food is pleasure more than nutrition. Could be cheeseburgers or chicken nuggets. Whatever gives him a few weeks or months of pleasure.

I hope you'll keep is posted. And I hope Betty will have some good ideas.

Matt, not taking shots but I'm hoping your "personal hypothesis" isn't going to prolong your dogs suffering after all he's been through.

I've been in that position and I wont do it again. It's unfair to the dog IMHO.

Hi Bob - no offense taken. I hope I'm right too, but ultimately it's not my call to make either way. The main thing is that he's not in any major distress: no heavy panting or moaning from pain, etc. He just needs to eat, wants to eat, but seems to be unable to bring himself to eat very much.

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Here's a little bit more info for the people who know the medical side more than I do... my mom said that starting today his prednisone dose was lowered to 10mg/day. I think they divide that into a morning and an evening dose.

Also, he drinks plenty of water. And on top of that, this is what he's had this afternoon/evening (info from my mom): "lots of ice pup broth, 4 ice creams (Sweet Spots), a couple of baby foods (one of the all-meat ones, either turkey or chicken), a tiny bit of cooked chicken and a T of Nutri-cal. He wants to eat, but is very selective and can only take extremely small amounts at one time."

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Thanks for the good thoughts Tracy, and yes I think you're right. There's no getting "well" at this point exactly. It's a goal of feeling pretty good for a while longer until the time comes when he really doesn't feel well at all. At which point it's time to follow Bob's advise.

Matt, my older, going on 11, GSD has digestive issues. Controllable yes but his appetite sometimes is down a bit.

I give him Vitamin B12 shots every other week and when his appetite drops I give an extra B12 shot. It always seems to help.

Just a thought.

So sorry to read your sad news, you will know when enough is enough, because you will see it in his eyes.

Give him a fuss from me

Been waiting to post because my advice is negative.

You have a geriatric cancer patient with a real big heart. He will keep a smile on his face and try for you until he is in absolute agony, until he is covered with sores and can't keep from soiling himself because he is so weak. He may die bleeding from his stomach. It will break your parents heart.

Don't go there.

There is no food, no medicine and no amount of love and devotion that is going to fix this.

Take your Mother under your wing, tell her it is time. People have to be told. No one wants to "throw in the towel". Just because your dog pretends he isn't suffering does not mean that he isn't. And if he's not now, he will be, and soon. In my view you veterinarian has already let this go way too long.

Christmas is coming and the New Years holiday. Lots of nights when emergency care is going to be super spendy and hard to come by.

I just want to say that I was waiting and hoping for Dr. Betty to post. My feeling is the same.

I know the agony of allowing the dearest friend to go, but it's agony only for us humans. It's a gift of release in a case like this .... a gift only we can give.


I'll never forgive myself for the time I waited too long.

"As of today, the vets are recommending euthanasia ... "

When the vets say this, IME, it has been put off too long already. JMHO.

Hi everybody - I apologize for not updating this thread until now, but I wanted to thank you all for your kind words and good advice. Shiloh was euthanized today just before 4pm Pacific time. He was strong and alert and feeling good at the end. All in all, it went about as well as these things can possibly go.

Reducing the prednisone and feeding him small meals throughout the day helped him have some more good time in this world since my posts in Dec, and he had generally been feeling well enough that we might've held out for another few weeks or month or more. But it seemed that this was the time, while he was still strong and feeling like himself and not in any great distress.

I can't really bring myself to write much more at the moment, but wanted to let you all know that we did take your advice to heart, and I will be happy to share more details in a day or so if anyone is interested.

Hug your dogs for me tonight. Shiloh was a very special spirit and we will all miss him terribly.