I posted not too long ago about starting Aries on an e collar. I was just reading up on the e collar forum here to research before buying DVD and collar. It seems the advice given very often is how to work around using one. I think it would be best for me to state my goals for using one to you all to see if it is in fact a good idea/ Aries is ready.
Aries turns 14mos old today, and is pretty solid on knowledge of commands as well as obedient to them.
One issue that has recently cropped up is his recall. He was always dependable with it in the past, but since getting into our tracking work he has been less reliable. I assume it's the tracking work anyways, (or maybe age?). I am supposed to let him take the lead in that work and not distract him with commands or corrections.
He still comes when called, but if he is sniffing something interesting he will no longer stop to come. Instead he finishes sniffing , then comes. I want to convey to him that when he is on his tracking line he has that freedom but when we are just hanging out he needs to drop what he is doing and mind.
Another goal I want to work on him with is executing commands in the spot he is in when they are given. Currently if I tell him to down or sit etc.. he will come to my front and do it, or if we are heeling he will do it by my side. I would like to be able to put him in a stay, walk away, and have him down or whatever in that place instead of coming to me to do it. I feel like I would have more precise communication with him of the very moment he guessed wrong and be more likely to stop him in his tracks with an e collar. Right now when I try to give him the "nope" at the point he starts coming he will continue coming back to me to start over from the beginning with his "whoops, sorry" expression.
So, please let me know if these goals are acceptable and / or Aries is ready to use one. :-)

I don't really see the e-collar as a first choice to teach that. I would be asking for a sit/down in various orientations to me but still close enough to assist with the lead. Build it in small increments until the dog understands that changing positions does not require him to walk towards you or turn to face you. I wouldn't hesitate to use the e-collar to get a more solid recall but I would do more on-lead work for the rest of the stuff. If he doesn't understand what your "nope" means then the e-collar is liable to just add confusion.

If you give a command in tracking it should still be backed up with a correction for non-compliance.

Sorry, I misstated myself there. On the tracking note, I meant that other than giving him the track command and occasionally redirecting him if he appears to have been distracted by a competing smell, I am not supposed to give him other commands or corrections. We are using and practicing the drive tracking DVD. Since I have been advocating his drive for scent work, during our sessions, I think it has morphed into a very high level distraction for him.
I wasn'twasn't meaning to imply that I give commands while tracking that aren't expected to be followed. My bad articulation! :-)

On the other goal: He knows nope means that he isn't doing what I want, but if he isn't already next to me, he will come to me to "start over". I can't think of any way to show him to stay where he is and try again other than to compel him to do so. Any creative ideas for this would be appreciated! I could certainly try with the leash but that will only get me to 6 ft away, and if used properly isn't a leash correction the same in a dogs mind as a stim as long as they know what it means? My understanding of the purpose of the e collar isn't so much to have more power in your hands as it is to have that correction power from a distance. I hope I'm not coming across as argumentative, I just want to fully understand. :-)

Will he stay at the end of a lead to do a down from sit or sit from down? If not, I would just go and assist him with the leash when he tried to approach you. So it would go like this: Dog is at the end of the leash in a sit. Handler says "down". Dog gets up. "Nope" the second it's apparent that he isn't going straight into a down and move in to lure/ manipulate into a down. Back to position you were originally at. Mark and reward. You may have to start from only a few feet away if he's really locked into the mindset that the only right place to do commands and position changes are at heel or right in front of you. I've seen people use boxes or boards to help the dog realize he isn't supposed to move forward as well.

I would also do things like stand diagonally to him and ask for a sit/down and then say "nope" or just block him from coming around to face me. I would assist him in making the right choice wherever I could if it's coming from confusion.

Can he do a sit or down in motion while heeling while you keep walking?

I use an e-collar myself I just don't think it's very fair to the dog to be corrected for confusion. It might work but it's not how I would like to communicate with my dog.

I see what you mean. I certainly would rather he understood first. My desire is to use it as a communication tool. It is definitely coming from confusion; he is not very obstinate thank heavens!
No, he doesn't do a sit or down in motion from heel. I have to stop, give him the command, and tell him to stay first. Then I can walk away. Without the stay command he thinks he is supposed to stay next to me.
He will go from a down to sit or sit to down in front of me on lead to about 2-3 ft away.

I sounds like you haven't proofed the sit or down from more then the length of your 5-6ft leash.

Get yourself some clothes line (do they still call it that) from one of the big box stores and GRADUALLY work from further and further distances.

The e-collar can be a great tool when properly used but it's also a tool that can easily be misused and can create what is called superstitious behavior.

That means the dog can associate the correction with something he may be standing next to or even the come command itself.

I'm not an expert on the e-collar by any means. I don't use them.

 Quote: Nicole hardman

He will go from a down to sit or sit to down in front of me on lead to about 2-3 ft away.

I would start working from there to increase the distance until I saw the little light bulb come on.

Sounds good, thank you!

Going back to the question in your subject line... Are you ready to start ecollar training?

IMHO, JMHO, JMO, based on your descriptions, you haven't proofed your obedience nearly enough. If your dog will not change positions where you want him to stay, the ecollar will not help. The dog must first be able to change positions at a distance away from you before you nip him for not changing positions at a distance. If the command is not crystal clear, no amount of "communication" is going to make him perform it correctly.

There are many ways to train the desired behavior. You should try several until you find what works.

Nicole;

The ecollar can be used for corrections or communicating.

As a correction, just as with any other correction, it can be harsh and confusing to the dog if he does not understand why he is being corrected.

As a communication device, the ecollar is typically used in escape avoidance, or negative reinforcement training. This is where an inexperienced user can get in real trouble. If you plan on doing that type of training, then you need to take a course in or watch videos that explain that style of training in depth, starting at the very beginning and including lessons on how to acclimate the dog to the collar and teaching the dog how to turn off pressure.

The reasons you see so much advice against using the ecollar (or advising to avoid it) is because many people don't take the time to learn how to use it properly, and what they end up doing to their dog with it is cruel.

I couldn't begin to tell you how often I've heard someone say, "I put the collar on and zapped my dog, but he didn't respond". They think they need to use a higher setting, but really they don't know how to read the feedback that the dog is giving about the collar.

There are so may ways to train dogs that it can easily be done without an ecollar, and that is why so many avoid them. They are really for experienced dog handlers who already know how to train behaviors and have adopted the ecollar as an effective tool to help them. No good trainer relies solely on an ecollar to communicate with their dog.

You said that you thought of putting the dog in a down, then walking away and giving a command. Your plan is to use a nip as a "nope" if the dog starts to come toward you instead of assuming the commanded position, but how will the dog know what that means? There is a possibility that the dog might become suspicious of moving at all, thinking that the thing on his neck stung him because he moved when you spoke, The proper usage would be E/A; you stimulate the dog at a low level while giving the command, and then turning off the stim the second he complies.

It takes time for both dog and handler to learn and understand the collar. We (or at least I) hate to see one useed on a dog who doesn't understand it. It is not the quick fix that you may be hoping for.