I constantly hear that Domestic Disturbance cases are one of the leading causes of Police death or use of force. I assume this is because so much emotion is involved with the family.

My question is do any of the police officers on this board think it's a good idea to have a dog on the scene during these cases?

The reason I say so is because one of the main things I think about protection dogs in reference to security or police work is the psychological appeal. It seems to be more a deterrant than anything else. People are always more reserved with police dogs or PP Dogs on the scene in my opinion. It's the simple fact of someone not knowing what the dog is going to do. I think it also directs attention to the dog, rather than the situation at hand to some degree.

Is this a good idea, or could it be a factor of money, resources, red tape, etc? I guess not knowing if there are other distraction on scene that would cause this more harm than good.

I also think that when two officers are on a scene and the gang activity is large, would this help when not having as many officers available?

I'm sure that when a situation arises and it's unrelated to narcotics that there's more of a risk for law suits, I know in Texas that the criminal right issue doesn't hold as high as other states.

So, should they use K9s more often in other work besides narcotics more often? I know I don't seem to see them doing as much. I also think at the airport it would help too. I think they should have a security dog on every aircraft. Are these good ideas, or not? If there not good ideas tell me the situation. I figured it would at least be interesting to talk about. (When I say dogs at the airport, I don't mean detection dogs) I've seen them.

I think a effective long range non-lethal deterrents would be better then sending a dog on someone to avoid lawsuites.

Check this link out:
http://www.sfbg.com/reality/22.html

Robert

I don't deny there's not other things out there to stop what I mentioned, your right about that. The sad part is to look at the cost that police departments have to pay. But lawsuits I guess are the reality. There's really nothing that can be done about that. It's sad though because a dog is much cheapier and more practical I think that these other things.

Don't get me wrong, the new toys work. They work very well in fact but most of these things are not obtained in large numbers, and riots aren't the everyday thing. For regular use, I think K9s should be used more. BUT as I said before lawsuits is probably much more what the issue is.

I don't know what it is, but for some reason one police dog seems to make more of an impact to the suspect than several cops. At least people seem to act like it.

The dynamics of a domestic situation do not generally make a good environment for the introduction of a police dog. Tempers and emotions are already so high, that the dog tends to really send everyone over the edge. The last thing the police try to do is introduce anything that will escalate a problem. While the presence of a dog, in many cases, does have a sobering affect on some people, that is usually not the case in a domestic situation.

DFrost

LOL, I see your point man. Those people you see on cops are generally NOT the typical citizen. lmao!

Brad wrote: I constantly hear that Domestic Disturbance cases are one of the leading causes of Police death or use of force. I assume this is because so much emotion is involved with the family. My question is do any of the police officers on this board think it's a good idea to have a dog on the scene during these cases?

LC: The danger in domestic disturbance cases is mostly because the officer is the outsider. A couple can have spent years beating the crap out of each other. They can hate each other. They can try to kill each other with kitchen knives but as soon as the police officer shows up, he’s the outsider and they have to unit to “hold the family unit together.”

I don’t think a K-9 is going to calm these folks down and can create numerous problems if he’s on the scene. What if they have a dog? What if they have a cat and the PSD hasn’t (as is often the case dammit!) been trained to hold his stay with a cat 4" in front of him. Some people aren’t going to want the dog in their home and they’re going to use that as the focus of their anger at the officers.

I don’t think it’s a good idea. Better for officers to practice their safety skills to survive than to bring a dog into the picture. As far as the lawsuit side, no court will look favorably at a K-9 handler who brought his dog into a domestic situation.

Hey Lou is this a case for an e-collar??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Couldn't resist!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Some very good post on this topic, this might be a bit long, so please bear with me. In my area and on my department, there has to be a minimum of a 2 Deputy response on all family (415's) disturbances, you're not suppose to "advise" on those types of calls. Also, when you respond to a call like that you often aren't aware if any domestic violence that has occured (2735). If so, that raises the priority of the call and in that 5 or so seconds it takes for one person to slap, hit, push, etc the other person. On one end of the spectrum, you can have one half leave and not come back (our dept is moving away from this) to a bonifide DV (felony) call. So you as you are walking up to the apart you don't know if you have a misdemeanor or a felony call. I'm sure with most departments, there are very "stringent" guidelines regarding the deployment of the K-9. Here, unless it's an active felony type of situation, the actual deployment of the K-9 has to have approval of the shift supervisor prior to deployment (who is never "on scene". I think most cops will have more than enough problems keeping the peace between the husband or wife (etc) and just trying to get the facts of the story straight. Then, think about the possibility of him training a new cop who doesn't yet have his bearing. You're watching the husband, the wife, their dog in the apartment, the kids running around half clothed, you're watching the new cop making sure they are doing what they are suppose to do, then what about the dozen neighbors who are lookie looing and putting in their 2 cents worth. The last thing you want to worry about is your K-9 breaking a sit/stay or a down. Also, what if the suspect starts going sideways as you are trying to arrest him? I guarantee that the suspect will probably get a bite, but he won't be the only one who gets a bite. We have to utilize the use of force guidelines. (ie wheel or ladder, you know, voice commands, arm guidance, resistance devices, OC spray, impact weapons like asps, batons, etc. You have to be able to justify using those methods prior to deployment of a K9 who is generally consider as less than lethal force, but who "generally speaking" is right below deadly force. I hope I didn't go on to long, I was just trying to explain how things are done differently at different departments.
Regards
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Brandon

My two cents in reference to Domestic Disturbances and the use of a K-9.

Disclaimer: I am an Air Force Security Policeman (SP). I've spent the past 3 years around our Military Working Dogs - which, granted, while the military's K9 program needs work, we've also produced some of the finest Police Service Dogs I've seen. I'm also currently at the DoD's Dog Handler course. My opinions are based on Air Force/Department of Defense guidlines, school lessons, actual experiences, and personal thoughts.

That being said...here I go...

Dogs at a Domestic Disturbance can be more of a problem than it's worth. Don't get me wrong, the dog can be a great thing...however not in the middle of argueing/fighting spouses.

Whenever I've responded to a Domestic and a K9 team was actually on duty and available, the team usually parks down the block and waits as a back-up force in case the stuff hits the fan. I believe this is a great idea. It gives us the dog as backup in case someone decides to flee or get froggy or such, but keeps the dog out of the public eye - especially that of the suspects.

The psychological affect that a dog has on a suspect can immediately backfire on you the moment an enraged spouse sees the dog.

Hell, these people are experts on dogs, experts on cops, they've seen every single COPS show ever produced, and have "When Police K-9's Attack!" recorded on tape :rolleyes: So of course, the first thought that occours when they see the dog is "Dog's gonna bite my husband!!". Keep in mind that the husband just got finished beating the woman within an inch of her life because the house wasn't cleaned or some such crap, but she's ready to defend him with her life.

So what happens? Instead of the dog on scene calming things down with their presence, it backfires and tosses gasoline on an already smoldering flame. Not a good thing. Then you're up a creek without your paddle.

Gang activity is a different story - when not associated with a Domestic Disturbance. In the past we haven't hesitated to bring the dogs in, and I think this is good. Gangbanger punkass scum don't understand anything but their impression of power (which is usually based on violence & reputation).

Now they see the dog. Again, they KNOW what these dogs can do (to an extent). They KNOW these dogs can, and will, bite them. The dogs aren't like cops - they can't be bribed, they can't be intimidated, they can't be threatened. The dogs will bite them, and it will HURT.

In my honest opinion, its more of a genes thing - its been in our genes for hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of years that dogs hurt, from the wild dogs that were first domesticated, to the dogs used in warefare (i.e. Romans and the such), to the "war dogs" of today - the police K-9. It's human nature to try to avoid them, and mayhaps be a bit intimidated by them.

So again, back to the Gangbanger thing. They see the dog, and know they can't run. They can try to shoot one, but damn that's hard to do, and then Mr. 5-O will get pretty PO'ed and want them even more. So their choices are pretty slim. They know the dog isn't gonna play. So thus, the psychological advantage that the dog usually enjoys comes into play, in contrast to the Domestic Disturbance situations where that advantage is a disadvantage.

Sorry its been a long day, and I hope I made some coherent thoughts here. If not, please forgive me LOL and I'll try to clear it up later.

Phil the SP

Great Post Phil the SP!