Hello, I new here, and I'm thankfull for this forum!!!
I use to train dogs, but that was many many years ago. I did obedience, off leash and on leash guard trainning, I did do some behaviour, but was just learning when I left.
I have had many rotties of the years. I have a new pup she's now 9 weeks old, "Sophie", we got her at 7 weeks. Anyway, where we got her, the breeder has over 30 something dogs, though most are rescue. We have to comply with the agreement, that we signed, in order to get the dog.
Last Saturday, having her for 2 weeks, the breeder asked to see her. So we drove over to his place. He had one female pup left from the litter sophie came from. Well, the two began to play, and in my opinion, the play began to become very agressive. I wanted to stop this, as I do not want to inccurage this behaviour, but the breeder insisted we leave them. After the breeder mentioned that my dog has a temper, I picked her up and just holding her in my arms.
I want my pup well socialized, with people as well as other dogs, but I don't think letting them fight all over again for pack order is healthy. I want to try out for Obedience, and I can't have her wanting to fight other dogs.
She's not fighting with my dad's dogs, nor my friends dogs, they are all older.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? What should I do about future visits? The breeder has mention coming over to our place with the other pup.

Without seeing the agreement I cannot comment legally (I am assuming here that it is a breeding agreement for one litter or the like) but if it was me, I would simply tell him that he can come over and see the pup or you can take it to him (if that is what you wish) but that you do not want the dog to socialise with his. For me he can like it or he can lump it. Whilst the contract may tie you to breeding with him I know of no agreements that state he can do with the dog what he likes. If you dont like what he does then don't let him do it.

This for me is not about correct or incorrect socialisation but more about your rights as an owner to bring the dog up the way you choose. If he cannot justify to you why he is doing this (having the dogs playing) then you have the right to tell him that he will not happen again. I would very much ask him to explain why he wishes to do this with the dogs? If you dont like the answer put a stop to it. I feel he is trying to figure which is the stronger dog but this is only a guess based on the fact he wishes to bring the same pup again.

Remember you are not saying he cannot breed (if that is what the aggreement states) but simply stopping the dog from following an action that you do not like.

Hope this helps and is along the lines that you are looking for.

Mick.

This situation sounds weird. It's probably too late, but I don't think this breeder is a professional. I think that goes without saying. I'd give him a his dog back and hangout in the board for awhile. The dog you got is cute right now and it'll be easy to get attached, but if this guy sounds like amateur then his dogs won't have very stable temperaments, or health. With this breed in particular, I would be extra careful.

About four years back I went through this, and I love my dog. He'll always be well taken care of, BUT if I had it to do over again I wouldn't have taken him. His allergies are bad his hair is falling out. I've spent tons of money to help him. He's only 65lbs. I've practiced several things I've read on the site to help him, but his immune system is weak. I could go on and on about this. I'm with Mick if you signed a contract there's not much you can do. You can give it back, but that's your decision. I know that's easier said then done. I think a family that has a litter of pups, is usually better than the so called professional that doesn't title their dogs because they're just shooting them out as fast as they can reproduce. That was how it was when I got mine. I didn't have the net. I didn't know about Schutzhund or german lines, etc.

This dog will go to a home because of it's age. If it doesn't have a genetic line that's been titled in Schutzhund, or IPO I'd take it back. I think this breeder is just putting out Rotts for money, and that's why he's using Rescued dogs because they're free, and this breeder sounds like a puppy mill deluxe.

To think that cops were buying these dogs from this kennel is even more shocking. (Where I got mine) That is the reason the GSD is going down. These places become of puppy mill with just a little bit better quality dogs. The results are usually the same.

Giving her up is out, I'm far to attached now. We've had her two weeks now, she's housebroken, sit's, comes when called, and speaks on command and hand signals. I don't
normally train so much at such an early age, but she wants to learn. As you can tell I spend alot of time , 24/7 with her. I take her every where with me, I had to visit the butchers yesturday, and I took her with me. LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
What I think (or hope) is that this is a sibling thing. Once the other pup is gone, I'll take her over and see how she does with the other dogs he has. Why I want to take her over there is because I loved the temperament of the dogs he has, even the rescued ones. Infact when we applied for the pup we were basicly interviewed by the whole lot of them!
When we were there that night, he brought out several males, I think while we were there he brought out 3 different dogs, all older around 3 years. My pup didn't have a problem with any of them just her sister.
I have her on a natural diet, he wanted to compare the two dogs. I respect his concern for the dogs. He knows the history of most of the rescued ones.
I was just concerned about the free for all that my pup and the female pup left where having. There would have been a pecking order among the litter, I guess after having just left 2 weeks they still had to sort this out. Maybe I'm reading to much into this?
Anyone breeder out there, would you just let two pups go at it?

The fact that you are even willing to take your pup back over to your breeder's house is beyond me??? I don't get the reasoning behind this. Does he/she have certain goals in mind like doing some scientific research study? I think Wolflarsen summed it up well when he said "weird"..lol <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Screw this guy. Don't waste your time with this sort of thing. Spend your time raising your puppy correctly. I don't quite understand what kind of contract you are talking about here. What is he gonna do....come to your house and take the pup back if you don't bring her over? Sounds like the type of guy who would try to con you into switching pups later on for what he will tell you is your own good. There is nothing wrong with a breeder asking that you let him know how the pup is from time to time. Responsible breeders want to know how their dogs turn out, especially if there are health issues. But something dosen't sound right about this guy.

The Contract is a Release and Idemnity Agreement Between him and us. The first part of the contract states who she is, her given names, birth order, tatoo #, date she was born, stuff like this
Then it states 1.Return Policy - in the event that the buyer no longer wishes to maintain ownership of the dog pursuant to this agreement, or if the buyer fails to comply with the terms and conditions of this agreement, (such compliance to be at the sole discredtion of the Seller) the dog shall forthwith be returned to the seller.
#2 Refunds - if after 14 days the dog purchased is returned to the seller from the date of the agreement the seller will assess the physical health of the dog, and at the sole discretion of the seller there may be a refund of the fee paid pursuant to this agreement in the amount determined by the seller.
#3 Transfer of Ownership - basicly states that I can't transfer ownership of the dog to anyone.
#4 Use - the dog bought pursuant to this agreement is bought for the sole purpose of being used as a companion/house pet and for no other purpose. The dog must be housed indoors and provided with clean, dry and heated facilties, and must not at any time be permitted to run at large.
#6 Health. basicly states that I must at my expense have annual physicl examinations from a licensed vet and receive annual inoculations.
#7 Resevation of Rights - In the event the buyer is in breach of this agreement, or if, in the sole discretion of the seller the dog in pursuant to this agreement is being treated or housed in a cruel or inhumane fashion, is housed in a situation that is not representative of the information given on the buyers application, or is in a situation not acceptable to the standards of this breeder, the seller reserves the right to take possession of the dog,
#8 Fees and Expences - In the event it is neccessary for the seller to take legal action to recover the do in pursuant to this agreement or to otherwise enforce the provisions hereof, the buyer agrees to pay all legal gees on a solicitor and client basis as well as all other incurred by the seller.
#9 Post Buyer Contract - It is understood that the seller will call on the telephone the buyer, on a regular basis to follow the progress of the dog, It is understood and agreed upon that the seller will be permitted to examine the dog with reasonable notice at a time mutually convenient to both the seller and the buyer at any timee in the futur.
#10 General Care - The buyer agrees to feed the adopted dog a quality wholesome food, provide clean fresh water at all times and suffficient exercise in consideration of the size and age fo the dog. Then there is a list a brand name dog foods we can not give.
#11 - The buyer agrees to enroll in obedience classes with the aboved mentioned dog and on a regular bases keep the seller updated on the progress of themselves and said dog and at completion of said classes supply documentation of completion
#12 Above dog shall be spay or neutered with in thee first six months after birth by a companit vet or the above dog shall be returned to and become the property of the seller.
Then this is signed and dated
then it takes about that she was born at 5:40 pm she received her first shots at 5 week and second deworming and first puppy shots on Feb 2 and was eating food at three and one half weeks and was completely weaned by mother (and states her name) call name clara at five and one half weeks. She is due for a second booster vaccination on March 2 and rabies at 6 months. (unregistered) thus no guarantees to be a pure rottweiler.
Sorry if my typing, and misspelled words, but thats the contract.

Okay, well there are a few points in the contract that are a little open ended for me but keeping in mind the original question I see no reason why you can't bring up your concerns with the breeder and see his theories for doing this or putting a stop too it.

I must say I dont see any massive problem with it but it depends on how bad the puppies played. Puppies play rough, espcially siblings, and can make lots of noise and show lots of teeth etc with no real malice or aggression in it, but how rough they got is a question of perseption. What you perceive as rough I may not and Vice Versa. So it makes the question hard to answer. If your pup was playing just as hard as the other and not trying to get away from the interaction then the chances of long term problems are small.

On the whole however I do not let puppies play off lead too much once they have left the mother. This is so that one who is stronger cannot simply beat up on a weaker one and in the end weaken that dog. But small amounts with similar strength dogs such as described would cause me little concern. However as soon as I see one dog retreating I would put a stop to it instantly.

Mick.

Originally posted by milt:
I wouldn't bring him back just for the reason that the pup doesn't have all its shots yet. Playing rough at that age is no big deal IMO.I think you guys are reading to much into the breeders modifs.

milt