Anyone have any thoughts on using Dutch Shepherds or Malinois in working line GSD breeding programs. Either legitimately breeding mutts, or working under the table and breeding registered GSDs with funny conformation. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Can working GSD lines be improved by using the genes of the Malinois type shepherds?

They are essentially the same dog just seperated by a handful of generations and some temperament differences, right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> (just like every other breed on the planet)

Mon Kapitan, 15 - 20 years ago if you were to do this here in North America (the breeding Part) you would be called an AH ( In Vulcan that is COI-'A NEI'E <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> ) The registration part then and today you get in big trouble.

Now I can comment on this thread with the utmost honesty. Why, well I gave up the registration process for my own breedings a long time ago for the simple reason that I know the truth about the Belgian and the Dutch Shepherds.

So what is that truth you ask? They, the mals are simply the best working protection dogs available today in any great quanity but the peds are a sham on paper.

The genetic makeup of the GSD is founded on the old European Shepherd breeds that if one were to take a very hard and critical look at the original pics what do you see?

Mals and DS type dogs.

Keep in mind that I say here "TYPE DOGS"

If I was a purist and wanted to keep the current look then fine but what situation have the look purists done. ??????????????????

Germany within the Police Producing Kennels have begun cross breeding some of the better GSD Females with the Mal.

WHY? Fresh new blood that will enhance working quality, genetic vigor (and really cool looking mals and funny looking GSD)

Myself , knowing what I do about Mal Peds and how false they are and the good chance that breeders are breeding back into common genes a bit to much as an accident see this new trend which I subscribe to as the way to go.

Paper means Jack to me now. Truth is my dogs work hard and better than most out there and when it comes to the buck I get when I do sell one well it is better than the papered dogs.

Breeding out to another breed and registering the pups though is not something I support but then I in public will say "No Paper here"

Take a look at the KNPV and one of the Ped Sites that highlight the breeds being used in Holland.

Almost every last dog being bred today for the KNPV is a Malx or a DSx and these dogs in great numbers x'ed as they are make up a large segment of the PSD being shipped to North America.

I think it was on one of Ed's original Vids on the KNPV which I have. Ed talks about how the criminals do not ask to see the papers of the dog that just pinched them. (pinched LOL crushed is more like it)

Camper, IMO, this is going to take place more and more here. Yep there will be the paper freaks who are to insecure or greedy and false paper dogs but they will fail and get caught and hung out to dry for sure. DNA is now here so this fake paper will become less and less.

Funny you bring all this up at this point. Just the other day I was talking to a bud down south that say's one of the reasons why the AKC has taken a new interest in WORKING DOGS is to prevent breed x's from taking a hold and draining the money pot they now enjoy.

Well, time to go now and pump some caffine into me. I know I promiced not to post until the second pot but I am ok as I have not swallowed the baby aspirin and I have no where to drive this morning.

Man ya just got to love Canada. Last week a heat wave and the air conditioner and this bright Sunday Morning my Pepper plants were covered in light frost.

Jerry

After three papered dogs, I just bought a cross.....and I've got my fingers crossed at the same time. KNVP by the way, We'll see.

I've thought about this. I really can't say that I'm against the idea.

(check your PMs)

Jerry let me correct you on one very important thing there my man.

It is "funny looking Mal crosses and cool looking GSDs". Mals are funny lookin, GSD are cool lookin no matter what the pedigree says, and no matter what you freakin' Malinutcase guys say. I have certainly never seen a cool looking Mal. I've seen cool looking KNPV GSDs though. lol

Malinutcase, Is that American for Malinoids which is the Canadian term. Double LOL.

Jerry

From strictly a performance aspect, what are the advantages and disadvantages of these crosses?

What does the GSD bring to the Mal/DS, or vice-versa?

Chet

To increase the drives, fight, defense, HD, etc. In common terms bring more fire to the breed.

The disadvantages? I guess you'd have a lot GSDs running around with pinheads, it would help the Malinois and DS's appearance. (Not that it matters)

One question, there's no difference in the temperament of these three breeds at all way in the beginning?

I wasn't around in 1890-1920 so I don't know, but I do know that all three of the shepherd breeds originate from the same type of dog, and as late as 1909 they were often indistinguishable and competed in each other's shows. And many times along the road since then there have been crosses.

The GSD used to have three coats just like the Belgians (because they were all the same dog), and carried the brindle color as well. That all changed pretty quickly as the GSD "short coat" was selected for because it was considered the best. Brindle color was bred out because it was rare to begin with and mostly isolated to specific populations outside of Germany. I don't think it is a dominate color either.

They were the same dog.

I honestly don't know what happens exactly when you cross the breeds as a whole. I don't think that matters. What matters is that you may find a really great dog and want to breed him. I pound on the other breeds a lot, but I really do look at specific traits and individual animals. I don't like to make breed generalizations. I'm pretty sure you can find Mals and GSDS that have almost very similar temperaments. So much so that if you were blind you could not tell the dogs apart. That goes for a lot of working breeds.

Drive is drive is drive, no matter what shell its drivin.

Wait check that, all other breeds suck. GSDs are the best. . .

I don't know what the heck I was thinking, I need to get more sleep. I start talking nonsense and gibberish. . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

GSDs ROCK!