I remember I read somewhere long ago that people from the german police had expressed their worries about the effect that breeding for SCH only will effect the character needed for a policedog in a negative way, and already have.
Do anyone have any info about this, because I´m not sure if what I read was true or not.
So, have the german police critized SCH and the SV or not?

Hi, Stig. There was a post under showlines a month or so ago. That dealt with German police concerns about the SV I don't think that article dealt directly with schutzhund, but Ed and Will talked about why schutzhund was in decline. About lowering standards, taking gunshot out of BH and stick hits out of sch 1,others including myself talked about sch passing dogs that should not have passed . If, your interested there is a link to the article in a post by Kate???? You can go to main page and click on showlines and look for {Article on Leerburg.. German Showlines}. I hope this post is what you were talking about. If, not it will make for a good discussion.

No, it was a year ago, and not on this board. A person said that strong forces in the german policedogsection have been quite critical of the way SCH affects the genepool of servicedogs.
But as I said, I don´t know what that information come from, if it is true or not, maybe someone knows more about this.

I hope you can find that article and post a link to it here. If that's what the man choosing policedog canidates said I agree. I think that too many sch organizations and clubs are passing dogs that should be run off the field. I hope with the resignation of sch usa head, the new president will strengthen standards for sch titles.

It is not schutzh8und that the polizei have been critical of, it is the SV.
In '99 I sat in the room, eating a great dinner as the guest of the SV at the 100th anniversary of the SV while the highest ranking K-9 offcial in the Polizei pretty much said, too bad, so sad that the SV no longer produces police dogs, hope you do better but the Polizei will split from the long time relationship with the SV due to its lack of production of working candidates for the Polizei.
back at the table after his speech i spoke extensively with him. he said that all attempts to get the SV to improve the working character of the GSD had failed and that the Malinois was the working dog of choice and that most GSD's working in germany weren't even of German descent so he felt that the energy and $$ spent with the SV was a waste and that under pressure from the government to tighten their belt this was one area that was a waste of cash.
Now others I know think that the decisions he made were political, and that he was a DVG man and that was his modivation.
I have a small picture although a good close up i think. My impression was that it was out of frustration. That the SV views themselves as so big and powerful that such matters are minutia to them. I was offended that a huge, very expensive light show that was part of the 100th year celebration of the SV lacked any views of biting dogs and police dogs in general yet, the SV was quite prouds to display the policemen that came to participate in the WPO they sponsered. It seemed somewhat two faced really.
I cannot complain about the way I was treated. The SV was polite, respectful, and supportive. But there was a feeling that they needed to display the GSD as a true working dog and that that was why we were there, as part of their PR.
The United SchH clubs of America have chosen to do EXACTLY what the SV does. This is the biggest mistake they have ever made.
The USA could be one of the last bastians of the working GSD if they stuck to the old rules, focused on work instead of show and expanded on that concept regardless of the SV. in fact, I believe we would gain the respect of the enthusiasts of the working GSD worlwide if we had chosen to that course of actiuon instead of following blindly.
I feel that if USA chooses to have their own registry, own independent breeding requirements, and own working dog examination process that USA can be saved.
If USA would pull their collective heads out of their a$$es USA could become the who's who of working dog breeding organizations.
Now I'm not saying abandon the SV approach. It could be kept as a teir within the USA program for those who feel compelled to follow the SV like sheep.
We currently don't have the pressure from the Grteen Party and the BSL that plagues the European union....thank God for that.
I really could care less who recognizes the paper we cut for our GSD's, I do care that when I step out of my patrol car with a GSD that the dog has the power and drive to engage in the work at hand. The SV has placed this as a total aside from the art of breeding German Shepherd dogs. The SV cares about the SV, not the rank and file cop on the street, or the average GSD owner who has the expectation that they have in their choice of breed intense character, or the schutzhund enthusiast who admires the drive and hardness necessary to do combat withe helper, track an hour old track and do obedience demonstrating the servitude that we envision of the GSD.
Instead they SV heirarchy lust for the long angualted red and black dog. It is a desease, an illness brought about by people in suits and ties and mercedes benz. Not by the blue collar worker who comes home from work, picks up his/her GSD and heads to the club to train.
I feel betrayed by the weakening of the GSD. It has been raped by affluence.
If I'm wrong speak up, but I'm not, I'm just a poor cop who works the road, sometimes staking the outcome of the job I'm tasked with performing on the GSD I haul around each night, but I have seen the distastful machinations of those who are tasked with the continuation of the GSD's history, and they are failing.

Preach on brother.

I would think that this problem would start to change with Raiser in place....is this so?

I think that breeding for Shutzhund only is detrimental to the breed. In the HGH is it not true that the dog must learn to do things on his own based on his training? I don't think that Shutzhund alone is enough for this breed. I don't see a lot of free thinking in this sport. Not that there should be, just that I think dogs with HGH titles are very important to the breed. Don't ask me how to change this I am not that smart, But breeding with only one thing in mind is probably not the way to go.

Last i heard they threw him out on his ear.

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I would think that this problem would start to change with Raiser in place....is this so?

HGH is dead. Virtually all the working sheep dogs in Germany are NOT GSD's. If you look at the titles the HGH is not used except rarely.
Breeding for schutzhund is NOT breeding for aggression and this would be the only disqualifier for using it alone as a selection test.
The sport of schutzhund involves a temperment test, the BH followed by levels of ability. The VPG I,II,III. It also has two advanced tracking tests the FH and FH II.
There is also the AD, an endurance test for the dogs prior to getting their kkl, which also demands a title, hip x-rays, and (unfortunatly) a G rating in a show.
The only real problem in the sport is that we keep making the test in schutzhund less directed at fighting instinct and desire on the dogs part and more about other things.
With the increase in technology on rearing dogs and training dogs for this sport and the lessening of the pressure placed on the dogs in the test we are beggining to make Golden retrievers of the things. Pretty dogs lacking in the essential qualities of the working protection dog.
Hell, I would lovd to see the reed stick come back, the 10 point system of rating courage and fighting instinct.
I would also like to see a attack out of hiding in every single one of the levels of schutzhund, instead we have taken the one we had out and allowed the dogs to settle into a nice prey bite first on all examinations. Stupid.

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I think that breeding for Shutzhund only is detrimental to the breed. In the HGH is it not true that the dog must learn to do things on his own based on his training? I don't think that Shutzhund alone is enough for this breed. I don't see a lot of free thinking in this sport. Not that there should be, just that I think dogs with HGH titles are very important to the breed. Don't ask me how to change this I am not that smart, But breeding with only one thing in mind is probably not the way to go.