(This is from a post on another web board, I would like other opinions on what to do with him. Currently he is being socalized around children with his muzzle on. He wears it occasionaly so that he doesnt associate it solely with children. Since this message post, I have gotten Charlies recall to about 95% in a low level distraction enviorment. Currently I am working him in NILIF and on a flat buckle collar.)

Charlie is a Siberian Husky/Cocker spaniel mix. Both parents are purebred so I know exactly what he is. Charlie will be two this December 5th, I got him from my sister (her dogs had him) when he was eight weeks old. He was very smart as a puppy and he is still very smart as a dog. He learns new tricks and things realtivly easily and he has gone through advanced obediance. He is skilled enough to stay for up to a half hour and he does a sit and down on the recall. The only command he does not perform well (its my fault) is come.

He has been around kids from the very beginning my sister has two children ages 7 and ten, which he was a puppy around. Their activitly level is moderatly high. My sisters friend also has two children (all of them are boys) ages 6 and ten, their activity level is extremely high. He has been around very young boys (less than two years old) and he has been around a small 6 year old girl.

The child he bit was named Sebastian, him and his mother visited us last june, Charlie was not yet a year old when he snapped at Seb. Then we didnt think anything of it. Sebastian is a hyperactive child and when Charlie snaped at him Sebastian had stepped on him tail and pulled his fur after being repeatedly told not to. Then my aunt moved down here for a few months and we went to pick her up (she lives in pennselavania.) Charlie LOVES to travel and he goes most everywhere with me so we brought him along. He was in the room I was sleeping in and we were having quiet time, he had his food bowl and a water bowl out. He didnt eat and he had just been out to use the restroom and he had played in the snow. My younger sister was in there on the other side of the room talking to and playing a small quiet game with Seb, she threw a toy across the room and Sebastian got up to go get it, when he was running across the room he tripped over Charlie, and Charlie jumped up and grabbed the back of his head, it took several strong pulls for me to get him off of Seb and I didnt know what else to do but correct him. I severaly reprimanded him. I smacked his butt and yelled at him (he is a sensetive dog to yelling). That was the first time. He broke the skin and left several puncture wounds as well as some shallow cuts on the skull. That was Dec. 27

The second time I wasnt there. I was shopping with my father and Charlie was at home with the rest of the family who was cooking dinner. Charlie had been playing with the children all day and he must have been tired (this was told to me by my older brother who was there.) My older sisters kids and Seb where playing with him and he went and laid under the table. It was almost dinner time and my aunt was getting ready to feed the two youngest children. Austin is 7 and Sebastian is eight, the are both the same hieght and weight. Austin pulled a chair out from under the table and Seb did the same. Charlie came out from under the table and grabbed Sebs lower face this time he left two puncture marks in the cheek a cut below the lip and ending slightly above the chin there was also a small cut on the jaw of the other side of the face. The first time he warned I heard him growl but before I could stop him he had jumped up and grabbed him. The second time he gave no warning he just launched at him. Both time during the attack he sounded vicious.

The first time I believe he was resource gaurding, the second time I dont know. I said a level two bite because he bit once and and except for two spots both times the places where realativly shallow. A level five bite was once described as a multiple bite with deep punctures.

Charlie has extensive training. I mostly used a lure method of training. Other times (like for teaching him paw and touch) I would move the body part into the desired position and reward him. Charlie does get taken for lots and lots of walks. He goes everywhere and meets everybody with me. He is wary around some people and some people he just wants to jump all over them. He loves to meet kids on walks and he loves to lick their hands (usually sticky from ice cream these days).

Charlie is walked on a flat collar. It is a fabric type of collar from Petsmart. It is made by Dog Planet. When Charlie is walked I either use a five foot Dog Planet leash, a four foot latigo leather leash or a three and a half foot braided leather leash.

Other than this he is the perfect companion dog. He is neutered and he is fine around all animals. This last time he started an attack with out warning his was not able to follow through as he was grabbed. As soon as he was grabbed he quit trying to go after the child. I believe the last time he was gaurding a toy as was the first time. The second I dont know and unfortunatly I think it is might fault and I may have unintentionaly created a dog that attacks without warning first. It only seems to be some children though as the kids he gre up with can take his toys and stick their hands in his food bowl with out him getting agitated. Anybody over the age of twelve can do anything with him and he doesnt mind. He is not food aggressive with anyone over twelve either.

I forgot to metion, that Sebastian while not caught hurting Charlie, he was caught on several occasions holding our cats down and poking them with pencils and pens. He also was warned about playing with Charlie after the second time he was bit and he stated "Oh its okay I wont hurt him this time." I dont know if he was hurting him or not but it is something to take into consederation.

Pups go thru certain fear stages in their first year, and if something happens to them during one, it can affect their personality and traits alot during the rest of their lives.

It would appear to me, your mistake was ever allowing that child to do more than pet your puppy. All the poking, hair pulling, etc. seems to have given your pup the impression that ALL young boys are nasty, and you better be nasty first or the child won't let up.

http://www.doberman.org/articles/puppy.htm talks about the stages pups go thru.

At this point, I wouldn't trust your puppy with young kids and particularly young boys at all. What you can work on is possibly desensatizing and having your pup at least learn he needs to behave.

Fact is, that our pups need to learn that WE are in control and will protect them when they are young. If we let them down and they feel they need to control the situation, it should be no surprise they don't deal with it appropriately. But once they 'learn' that they need to rely only on themselves when they are unsure/scared then that's what they KNOW, so they don't even look to us. Why bother growling or warning or giving out 'calming signals' before biting? It didn't work before and probably the child just poked harder, pulled harder, and behaved worse. So you may as well go straight to the bite, cause then you are taking charge and relieving the stress that's been built up.

Here are some sites that may help:

Aggression in puppies

Aggression Basics

Early life management

The muzzle is a good start, but I think you need to just put him up when Sebastian is there. He has proven to be unpredictable (or rather, too predictable as in you know he will probably bite the child at some point) around Seb, so just keeping them apart sounds like the best solution to me -- and the best solution for Seb as well.

If you choose to keep trying to get him to accept the boy, then I would urge you to keep the muzzle on him, but also get a training collar like a prong and let him drag a short leash attached to it so that you can really correct him for showing aggression to the boy. If you don't want to use a prong, you can use a remote collar, on a higher setting than what you would use for actual training with it (for example, my dog's regular level on the Dogtra 200NCP for basic training is around a 20-25. For the boundary of the yard - where she thinks there is an invisible fence - I use about level 30. For her dog-aggression, I used level 40). He would still need to be on a leash, so that you could use it along with the remote collar to teach him that the appropriate response to the stim is NOT to go forward and attack the child (some dogs perceive the stim as coming from the other dog/child/helper, whatever their attention is focused on at the time), but instead to retreat away from the boy. He will be wearing the muzzle so he cannot actually bite Seb, but you need to use the leash in correlation with the pressing of the button on the remote to teach him to back off from the child.


Honestly, I think you need to consult with a good trainer/behavioralist in your area.

Charlie and/ or Kim.
Please check your PM's immediately for a Moderator message.


Will Rambeau
Moderator