Quote: Michael Taylor

"I go for a ride, looking to relax or save my gas money. If a dog approaches me, full of hate and aggression"

Michael, may I make a suggestion? I want you to look at your statement, and consider this:

Dogs are animals, they do not hate , this is a human concept and you are attributing a human emotion to an animal.
I understand that you hate dogs, you've said that several times in this thread, however, the dogs do not hate you - they chase a bike out of instinct, or territorial aggression, but not hate.

You really need to understand this, for us in the dog training world, when someone attributes human emotions to a dog, it makes as much sense as bumping your shin against your coffee table and then thinking that the coffee table hates you.
Human emotions are not involved here ( except your own ) , and you failing to understand this contributes a lot to your problem, whether you see it or not.

I tried three or four times to formulate a reply about what a mistake it is to ascribe human emotions like "hate" to a non-human animal, and gave up.

Great post.

This could work.............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P98cxCNU_-A&feature=related

Hmmmm...didn't somebody have a documented, step by step process as to how certain threads unfold sometimes. I think we're on about step 3 but I'll give it one more shot too.

 Quote: Michael Taylor

Still, I came here because I think there are probably some dogs that can be persuaded or avoided.

Michael, no one is denying the fact there's a problem out there. Unattended dogs can and will chase bikes. And it shouldn't have to be your responsibility to persuade or avoid them. Using sound devices or bear spray can certainly be a deterrent in a lot of cases but so can simply removing the chase.

I don't believe there is a lot of productive training or even simple management going on with these so called "protected religious figures". And OMG - did someone actually describe their dog that way to you or is that another one of your interpretations?

In any case, each time a dog is allowed to chase a bike, with the chase successfully ending in the bike leaving the vicinity (which is going to happen every time), their actions are reinforced. They know what to do next time they see one - chase it and it goes away. It's a quickly learned bad behavior. Stop the chase and most of the intensity in the situation is removed.

Of course each situation is going to be a little different and it would depend on the dog and your skill level as to how it could be handled. I don't know you and think it would be irresponsible to even recommend carrying a stuffed toy to throw at them at this point.

You're looking for a bullet proof solution that will protect people in all cases. Do you think recommending bear spray or weapons to children is a viable solution? There's a certain amount of training involved in the use of these tools and not everyone is capable of using them effectively, often to the result of being harmed by their own actions as opposed to any real threat the dog may have presented.

The dogs need to be trained not to do this and it shouldn't be your responsibility to do that. It's the responsibility of the lazy, irresponsible owner. This is where your challenge is.

It's easy for these owners to say, I didn't know he did that or he's always liked chasing bikes, I don't know why he does it but he doesn't hurt anyone - totally removing the blame from themselves. This is where they need to be educated. If you don't feel you can reason with them, hit them in their laziness and apathy towards taking ownership of THEIR problem. Bring that to the politicians. Remove the blame from the dogs and place it where it belongs.

In that ownership and really looking at where the problem lies, who has an ability to fix this? It's not me, it's not you, it's not the politicians and it's certainly not the dogs - it's the owners of these dogs. They are the only ones that truly have an ability to make the solid changes these situations require.

Don't portray them as ruthless thugs or a new segment of society that enjoys harassing leisurely bike riders with scary dogs. This may be the case in the odd situation but for the majority of dogs out there, there's simply an irresponsible owner in the house that's not properly exercising and containing their dogs. They're letting THEIR laziness dribble out onto the street and causing discomfort for law-abiding citizens that want to use it. That's what needs to get publicized.

Lazy, irresponsible owner allows "protected religious figure" to run free around neighborhood.

Lazy, irresponsible owner is not exercising their dog and forcing the bike riding public to train their dogs for them.

Lazy, irresponsible owner is exposing their cherished pet to harm by allowing them access to play on the roadway.

If it's a group think on an entire street, publicize that street as having a bunch of lazy, irresponsible owners.

I don’t think I'd go so far as condemning the whole of NE Texas (that's a pretty big state with some pretty liberal laws and that would just be wrong); keep it truthful and local where the problems are directly affecting you.

Get enough of that out there, maybe even with some names attached, and I'll bet you'd start to see some changes.

If you think you're dealing with big, dramatic "egos" (they’re obviously playing with yours....)

 Quote: Michael Taylor

.....you must be a creep or something

aim some well thought out, harmless but piercingly productive bullets straight at those egos.

The dogs have NO ability to comprehend what you're upset about, the owners do.

 Quote: CJ Barrett

Hmmmm...didn't somebody have a documented, step by step process as to how certain threads unfold sometimes. I think we're on about step 3 but I'll give it one more shot too.

It hasn't reached the point yet where someone has been compared to Hitler.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

 Quote: CJ Barrett

Hmmmm...didn't somebody have a documented, step by step process as to how certain threads unfold sometimes. I think we're on about step 3 but I'll give it one more shot too.

It hasn't reached the point yet where someone has been compared to Hitler.

That's generally in the second ten pages.

SERIOUSLY!!! This thread is crazy. I can't believe that there is 10 pages of this nonsence!

Michael you should go live on an island where you don't have to have any contact with another living breathing creature. Then you can ride your bike in peace.

Good god this is as stupid as NL's never-ending posts about nothing.

 Quote: Anne Jones

SERIOUSLY!!! This thread is crazy. I can't believe that there is 10 pages of this nonsence!

It's only 10 pages because you haven't adjusted your preferences for more posts per page, 30 will make this a 4 page thread. It's much less frustrating that way.

 Quote: Anne Jones

.... NL's never-ending posts about nothing.

I can relate somewhat to the OP. When I was in High School I had to ride my bike down the same road every day. Many dogs came out of their yards and chased me every day. I wasn't worried about it until one of them (a pointer) bit me on the thigh. I called the sheriff, the dog was quarantined for 10 days. The owners didn't let him run loose after that.

I was incredibly flinchy about dogs chasing me after that so I made a billy club in shop class, sewed a holster to fit, and tied it to my bike. When dogs came out to chase me I swung the club at them. I never managed to hit any of them with it (I was trying), but it worked very well to get them to back off - as well as giving me more confidence.

All of my dog bite experiences pale in comparison to another incident that happened that same summer. There was a very pretty red and white border collie mix dog that was a regular chaser. One rainy day he came across the road to chase me just as a car was coming the opposite way. The car hit him right next to me (I heard the crunch), I looked back to see him dead and spinning on his side down the road after the car passed over him. That one incident made me extremely wary of riding my bike on slick/rainy roads with cars.

Dogs chasing you while you are biking is not your biggest threat and they are more easily dealt with than heavy metal vehicles traveling at high rates of speed in close proximity to your breakable body.

I, too, rode a bike all over when I was a kid & teen. Used to ride 3-5 miles to schoool,the beach, to local stores etc regularly & often with my collie dog by my side. We were often chased by stray & uncontrolled loose dogs that often tried to bite both of us. Both of us had been bitten....but gee I survived & still don't hate dogs.

There were far MORE loose dogs then, than there are now...NO ONE contained their dogs, they ALL ran free.

If you want to find fault...blame the owners not the poor dogs that are just being dogs.
This is still totally over the top.

One of the things that I've noticed in the thread is that all of us dog owners know that it's the irresponsible dog owner that is the problem here, not the dog. If these bad owners would simply control/confine their animals, the problem is solved.

But Michael is concentrating on the dogs, which are basically following their instincts, when the problem is the owner, as we have all said. The answer is to confront the owner and/or call the police but Michael's not willing to do that:
" How can I approach someone who is so anti-social that they have a dog at large? Doing so (going to their house or sending police their way) puts me even more in harms way, with the dog there and a likely armed and territorial person who doesn't like being corrected about his dogs, esp if he will receive a fine or lose a dog."

So anybody that lets their dogs run free are dangerous also? Between a statement like that and the previous "dogs hate" statement, what we're seeing here may actually be mental illness - it's certainly a weird and warped view of the world.

Ok, so the problem is identified, the answer is simple, and the OP will not bother to do it......isn't this just becoming like those other threads that we all dread, where the problem can be addressed by the OP but they won't bother?
Cripes....10+ pages for someone that won't make a phone call.....what a waste of time!