My dog is not quite like yours or Alice's, but is a dominant aggressive dog who also sometimes appears jealous of the young dog in the household. My dog shows essentially all of the traits your dog displays, but they did not suddenly appear with the pup, they were there for years. I always walk them separately because 1) I think she is more aggressive when he is there, possibly a protective instinct 2) it is much safer to have 2 hands free to handle her and 3) she was starting to teach him bad habits. I recently bought a dominant dog collar for her, and I find it very helpful.

BUT, in addition to using discipline to change his behavior, I think Alice's suggestions are also very important, to give the older dog individual attention and excercize. Your dog may be influenced by the change in your household, and I do think dogs get jealous. I know that my old dog practically wiggles with happiness when I pet, groom and stroke her before the pup.

I also have found that positive conditioning (treating for giving me her attention after the "look" command) has really improved my old dogs behavior around other dogs. I instituted that change several weeks before receiving my dominant dog collar, and saw improvement quickly. I use the collar when she is still intent on the other dog after I use the "look" command, then say no and correct, as demonstrated by Ed in the dominant dog DVD. There has been a dramatic improvment in her behavior around some of her "enemies" in the past few weeks, so walks are becoming more relaxed.

My recent expereince with this old dog (10 yo) is very encouraging. I am sure that if I can make these improvments in her behavior in such a short time, you can do the same with your dog. Obviously, I have no formal training in dog behavior or training. Good luck.

 Quote:

mea culpa, cindy. i have never used the dominant dog collar and don't know a thing about it.

EXACTLY WHY YOU SHOULDN'T BE GIVING ADVICE ABOUT IT!!!

used properly, the dominant dog collar is not severe but makes perfect sense to the dog...

I recommend that people who read posts from others understand that not everyone on here is qualified to comment on certain topics.

I will again ask that folks who don't have personal experience with training or equipment refrain from posting.

I don't post on personal protection or police service dog threads because I haven't trained a dog myself in these disciplines... I have been present at a LOT of training for police dogs and PP dogs, but until I have the personal experience to back up my statements, I feel certain topics are best left to people who have walked the walk.

excuse me, but i did not give any advice about how to use a dominant dog collar. i gave advice about how to deal with dog aggression in this particular circumstance, which *is* something i do have experience with. not only experience, but success with.

 Quote:

excuse me, but i did not give any advice about how to use a dominant dog collar. i gave advice about how to deal with dog aggression in this particular circumstance, which *is* something i do have experience with. not only experience, but success with.

UMMMM...Alice. You recommended that Sam NOT get the dominant dog collar for some ridiculous reasons. You told him that it may not be necessary to "get rough with him" AS IF using a dominant dog collar is "rough"

Again, giving advice or opinions on something you admit you know nothing about is something that won't be tolerated here.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

How could using a dom. dog collar be construed as being "rough"?

Moderator note:

I again find it necessary to point this out - there is a *very* wide range of experience between many poster's and it will color their advice in the forums.

Professional dog trainers will give advice that they've used, often on dozens or even hundreds of dogs.

Pet owners will often give conflicting advice based on one experience, often on a breed that is very different in temperament then the dog breed that the original poster has the problem with.

It's up to the poster seeking advice to decide which method they want to try.




Will Rambeau
Moderator

Sarah, I think the dominant dog collar is somewhat rough, I would not care to have it used on me, but then again, I don't try and bite strange people on the street. It is certainly not gentle, but it seems to be working well so far. I took my dog out for a long walk today, ran into some friends with leashed dogs, and they noticed how much calmer she has become recently.

Sam, personally, I find it far better to be a bit "rough" with my dog then allow her to lunge snarling at other dogs. She is not quite as bad as yours with strangers, but I have not let anyone touch her for years, and for good reasons. She has to be crated when strangers come to the house. When we have our outside discipline in hand, I will use the dominant dog collar indoors to teach her better manners at home.

I know that Ed is not a big fan of treats to correct aggression, but I will make one comment on your use of treats. It may not work for your dog, but I have found that teaching my dog to look at me immediately when I say "look" for a treat has really helped to distract her in many (not all) situations. I taught her the command at home, with no distractions, then used it many times on a quiet street (no one around), etc, just like any other command. When we go out, she knows I have a pocketfull of treats, and she gets one or two at the onset. When a dog is approaching in the distance, we start "look" and treat, and I have her sit still or lie down as they pass. Maybe if you approach it that way, he will not think he is being rewarded for going after other dogs. Importantly, my dog does not get a treat if she shows aggression, she get lifted by the dominant dog collar instead, so I don't think there is any doubt in her mind when she is doing what I want, or not.

Will, Cindy, absolutely these are only my observations with my one dog, and things I have learned from reading this board. I am not a trainer at all, not an expert, but I am pleased with my one dog's progress. I spent a lot of years dealing with, but not solving, her aggression, and I think I am now finally making progress, so I feel it is useful to share this information.
polly

 Quote:

I think the dominant dog collar is somewhat rough, I would not care to have it used on me, but then again, I don't try and bite strange people on the street.

heehee, that cracked me up <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Yes, some behaviour warrents certain disipline. I am ordering the d.d. collar tomorrow from leerburg. I will wait till i recieve the dd video to see how to use it properly.
My dog is a funny duck. Just the other day i had to walk him downtown and there was a ton of people. Waiting to cross the street there was enough people there so that they were actually brushing up against him, and no problem, he didn't even glace to see who it was. Then we get closer to home (a quiet residental area) where there is only one or two people walking around and he starts eyeing them up again!
So far in my home if guests come over he is ok, as long as I welcome them in and act friendly towards them he has no problem. I tell guests to ignore him completely, and after a few minutes he is bringing them his toys to throw.
But...now that I've begun to be leery of his behaviour, if I know guests will be coming over I pop a leash and prong on him and have him down/stay while they come in, then let him drag the leash around so if I see him getting to excited/hyper/obnoxious I can correct and have him back in a down/stay.
I'd love to take the easy way out and just pop him into his outdoor run, but he needs to learn manners in the house. Sigh, dogs can be a lot of work!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

What's so rough about it? The correction that is given is very straight-forward and to the point, nothing rough about, it really doesn't even cause any pain. These collars and methods have been used for as long as I can remember. With some dogs it is the most reasonable and logical correction to use. Owners of aggressive dogs can't be huggin trees while wearing rose-colored glasses! You just gotta do what works.

Sam,
"Then we get closer to home (a quiet residental area) where there is only one or two people walking around and he starts eyeing them up again!"

Maybe he is protective of his own turf? My dog is really only aggressive on her own turf (apartment building, immediate neighborhood, mom's yard, car). Dominant dog DVD covers that.

Debbie,
"Owners of aggressive dogs can't be huggin trees while wearing rose-colored glasses! You just gotta do what works. "

Absolutely agree on the rose colored glasses, just took me a while to find out what worked. From my dog's reaction to both the prong and dominant dog collar, I am sure she would prefer I didn't use them, but she is becoming more managable, and our relationship has not suffered so it is obviously the correct thing to do. I am not interested in having a lunging, snarling animal who means business. It is no fun for me and completely irresponsible citizenship, so I feel very pleased with her progress. For some time I was using only the prong, as my reading of this site, particularly the section on chow mixes, led me to believe that that was the best method. It seems the dominant dog collar works better for my dog, even though she is not handler aggressive. Lastly, I do feel obligated to defend conservationists, many of whom also use prongs and keep disciplined dogs.
polly