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Just curious here .... By any chance, did your vet run a fecal sample for intestinal parasites, or did the vet assume salmonella because of the diet? .......

EXCELLENT point. Salmonella would not be the first thing I would think of for a pup with diarrhea. I would ask immediately what *else* the vet is checking for.

Canned plain pumpkin (for ordinary diarrhea, after you have this present situation sorted out) is something I always have in the pantry. It's almost like Bandaids as a basic first aid product, IMO.

Also IMO, there is no downside to adding a little plain cooked pumpkin to the dog's diet.

Not only is it great for firming up loose stools -- it'a also great for canine constipation. It adds bulk, which firms up run-of-the-mill diarrhea, but also helps move it along when there's a little sluggishness.

It doesn't take much. Depending on the dog's size, I give two teaspoons to two tablespoons with each meal until all is well.

JMO: You're getting some very good advice here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I would SO agree with Debbie about not accepting on blind faith any attempts to persuade you that fresh raw food has caused whatever is going on; I know (unfortunately) a lot of vets whose lack of canine nutrition education is abysmal. And Anne was clever to suspect that the vet might be biased against raw..... and thinking "salmonella" because of that. You're doing a good job by asking questions, IMO.

First off, I apologize for changing the thread like that.

Also, I'm sorry for not giving more details. Here is everything that has happend and I have done to date.

1. Got her at 10 weeks old. 5 days later she deposits a serious case of Round worm on my living room floor. Longer than anything I have read about on the Net. She was treated for that, and fecal exam revealed nothing else to worry about.

2. Switched her to a raw meat diet, utilizing the diet plan Ed Frawley has on his website. She has been on this for the past 5 months:
- chicken legs, back, neck bones
- ground beef
- Super C
- vegetables
- raw eggs
- other fun stuff

Everything that is on his diet plan example. Now when I say, "SPORADIC DIARRHEA", I mean she couldn't go more than 4 or 5 days without having explosive diarrhea. A second fecal examination found nothing. I reduced the amount of food, because I thought I was over feeding her (yes, Ed's plan is for a 20lb puppy, but I WAS feeding for the right weight of my puppy - just in case any of you ask). That didn't change anything. I reduced the exercise, because I thought that I was giving her too much. That didn't help. Until recently, she has never eating anything she shouldn't have off the floor, cuz I watch her like a hawk, and she is very good with the 'No!" command.

3. I added pumpkin to her diet, which seem to help at first and then 'BAM!' diarrhea came back. She eats well, she drinks fine, she plays and seems to have no problems other than constantly going back and forth between, solid, soft and explosive water diarrhea.

4. I took out the vegatables. Nothing changed. Took out the raw eggs, which made a big difference. Now she's up to two weeks before the diarreha hits again.

5. I took out everything, including the vitamins. She's just on the chicken and the ground beef, and still she can't maintain solid stools.

6. Her most recent bout of diarreha was very dark, so I took her to the vet. The vet did question me on why I decided to give her a raw diet, and yes I do get a sense that she doesn't approve, but she never pushed it any further. She just said that it is possible that she could have got salmonella so we'll do a fecal culture exam, or something like that. So now the vet is doing a 3rd fecal exam (for parasites) and a fecal culture (for salmonella).

But anyway, in terms of things like pumpkin I have tried that and I have eliminated practically everythying I could think off. Cooked rice and cooked groundbeef always bring her back to normal stool, but after a few days or a week or so, she's back to water diarreha.

I hope that makes things more clear. So now I'm just waiting for the results from the vet.

At the begining of this thread I was asking questions about why dogs ears going back alot around me. I have also posted in other places about how my puppy loves humans too much and is too submissive around other dogs (resulting in them getting aggressive or dominaring with her). I'm tried to find many answers to my problems regarding my pup. Could her problems with the on again off again diarreha effect how she is with other dogs. I mean, if she knows she's not well could that make her insecure around other dogs, or submissive around them.

I'm no dog expect. I'm just trying to understand and find answers.

Regards,

Troy

I notice you are giving your pup Super C. Neither of my pups can tolerate any amount of Vitamin C, and one of my pups experienced the "explosive" diarrhea that you mentioned for some time until I figured out what was causing it. This is only a thought on my part, and I'm glad there is more testing being done for you.

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I notice you are giving your pup Super C. Neither of my pups can tolerate any amount of Vitamin C, and one of my pups experienced the "explosive" diarrhea that you mentioned for some time until I figured out what was causing it. This is only a thought on my part, and I'm glad there is more testing being done for you.

Good thought, too. A lot of people and dogs cannot tolerate C supplements unless they are spread out over the day. Excess C is not dangerous for this very reason: Excesses are excreted in urine, and if it's more than that amount, then it's excreted in diarrhea.

I would eliminate beef and eggs before several of the items you have eliminated, but no big deal.

I would ask the vet to check for all parasitic infections, and my personal feeling (JMO) is that recurring bouts of salmonella are pretty far down on the list of likelihoods. If you want a list of parasitic infections that present with diarrhea, let me know. But I imagine your vet has a list herself. The question is, what (in addition to salmonella) is being checked for?

Meanwhile, I'd exhibit OCB and change my source of chicken, and cut out beef for now. I would stick with the small amounts of pumpkin (more is not better; a bunch of pumpkin has a bunch of vitamin A; a couple of tablespoons in a meal has a good amount of it) and probably hold off on all the supplements except minimum salmon oil and the usual vitamin E (and those too if the vet says to do so), and use some fresh chopped parsley just for now, since it's unlikely to contribute to diarrhea and you're cutting out the other produce.

This is all just what I would try....... nothing but opinion ... while waiting for test results.

On second thought, while trying to prevent explosive diarrhea, maybe it's better to cut out salmon oil, just while waiting for test results.

It's hard for me to type the words "cut out salmon oil." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I have found that raw eggs give my dog diahrea. I nuke the eggs and give everything else raw. Just a thought.

The results are in from the fecal culture exam. She doesn't have Salmonella poisoning.

It's Clostridium Perfringens!

My guess is she had it when I got her. The pet store I bought her from is known for being filthy (I found this out afterwards), and she has had this problem since day one, along with the wicked case of round worm too.

Anyway, antibiotics is the next step.

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The results are in from the fecal culture exam. She doesn't have Salmonella poisoning.

It's Clostridium Perfringens!

My guess is she had it when I got her. The pet store I bought her from is known for being filthy (I found this out afterwards), and she has had this problem since day one, along with the wicked case of round worm too.

Anyway, antibiotics is the next step.

I'm glad you found out. I feel that you will receive enough PMs about the pet stores/puppy-mill connection, so I'll just say that I'm glad you know what it is.

I'm also glad (and not surprised) that it was not salmonella.

You might want to start adding some plain unsweetened natural (live cultures) yogurt to her food while she's on antibiotics to replace intestinal bacteria killed by the meds. Whew! <img src="http://www.leerburgkennels.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My ACD, Aussie, spends about 30% of his time with his ears laid back. They come up when he's paying attention to what I'm doing (which takes up about 60% of his time *Lol*) or when he's excited or agitated (the other 10%, give or take).