Here is a copy of the last post I made to the "debate" and my RADICAL views on dog food. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> For your entertainment value.

START COPY OF MY OWN QUOTE:

I assume you consider my opinions (and that's exactly what they are - opinions) "radical." Is that a safe assumption? (if not, disregard post below)

One of the points I made that seemed to spark controversy was my opinion that many vets support and recommend Pet Hill Products (Science Diet being a major brand) rather blindly, at least in my experience. Here is a link to the AVMA (American Verterinary Medical Association) site, listing Pet Hill Products FIRST, as a Platinum sponsor of their recent conference.

http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/sep06/060915t.asp

Just because there is a financial relationship between the AVMA and Pet Hill Products doesn't automatically mean IMO, that Pet Hill's products are crap. But let's take this a step further, and look at the ingredient lists in their products. To the degree that corn, peanut hulls, Chicken By-Product Meal, etc. are common as primary ingredients (primary to me means in the top 5, and then I consider grain-splitting) show me the research suggesting the benefits of these ingredients? Is corn/rice/wheat better than carrots/alfalfa/kelp? Is Chicken By-Product Meal better than actual Chicken?

The biggest difference I see between smoking cigarettes compared to dog food is that a human has the choice to smoke or not (or eat Lean Cuisine/insert food here or not) and our dogs don't. They eat what we feed them. That's why I consider my responsibility very high in this regard - they don't have nearly as much choice about their life as I have about mine.

IMO, there are really good natural food alternatives (see links in previous posts) to raw. I just happen to be a raw advocate with positive personal experience to report, and I fail to see how that is "radical" based on evidence.

But I'm sure you can explain my radical POV.

END COPY.

Happy Friday!

Beth

Beth, if nothing else you have helped me. Salmonela and ecoli WAS a concern keeping me away from raw feeding. I've gotten books and a video on raw feeding and am still on the fence. Deep down I know it would be better, but just can't get past the bone thing. I know uncooked bones don't splinter like cooked ones, but I'm just not comfortable with it yet. I have switched to a better kibble and will eventually get THK when I get comfortable with my new house.(don't know what my bills look like yet)So thank you for helping me past one of my raw hurdles. Just a few more and I'll be ready to go.

Michael, for what it's worth, my 19 month old has been on the raw diet for several months but it was quite the hurdle to get over worrying about him choking on the bones of the chicken. Even now, I will not, under any circumstances, leave him alone in the house while he's eating (too paranoid) but he eats the chicken backs and wings and thighs with never, ever a bit of trouble.

My dog could be described as a "dainty" eater. He is not a gulper, he'll stop eating if the doorbell rings or if he thinks anything is going on. In other words, food is NOT his passion. He eats twice a day and finishes what's in his bowl about 95% of the time. But if he isn't hungry, he won't eat.

The downside to his eating raw is one thing: the gray hairs I might give myself from worrying <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ! Other than that, it's all good!

Michael -

I think making the switch to raw is one of those decisions most of us over-think. I have vague memories of struggling with it myself about 7 yrs ago with a 3-yr-old GSD. I read and fretted a lot, kept trying to get more "evidence" to convince me it was an o.k. thing to do, but most everything was anecdotal. Turns out that what will be more convincing than anything else will be the change you see in your dog - leaner, more energetic, better coat, nice breath, less poop, etc.
I rescued another GSD about a year ago and made the switch after about 10 days w/o any hesitation this time. There are other posts here about costs of raw, but my experience is that it's equal to or less than a really quality brand com'l kibble.

And in figuring your feeding costs, you can factor in about $0.00 for vet visits. Saw the vet in Aug '05 when I got the new dog and next visit was last month. He said she looked great and was in perfect health, and he's not really a raw advocate. One year vet bill: ~ $75.

BTW, neither the dogs nor anyone else in the family has gotten sick during the 7 yrs of raw feeding, food prep., etc. I'm more concerned about what I could pick up at a restaurant or fast food joint, or spinach, or lettuce or . . .

When you get settled, give it a try. It's not like it's an irreversible decision. But plan to try it for a couple weeks and I think the results will keep you going.

Mike

 Quote:

I think making the switch to raw is one of those decisions most of us over-think.

You're right. I'm pretty sure I've also heard all of this info in this thread before, but for some reason this time it made me think about all of the times I've dug in the trash for something, or put burgers on the grill with my hands, or waded through a nasty creek with God knows what kind of bacteria, and never thought about it. So why would I over-think this? I talked to my vet about it during our last visit and he had actually never heard of a raw diet. He's a great vet like Beth said, great with disease, illness, injury, etc. He didn't act alarmed by it and was kinda interested by it, but we didn't have alot of time to talk about it as they were very busy that day. I'll probably get into it and grind the bones or cut the bones out and add the calcium powder until I get past my worries. Sorry if I derailed your post Beth.

When out walking my two GSDs I have been stopped many times by people who want to admire them and their beautiful coats. Usually I am asked what I feed them and I just love the appalled look on the average person's face when I tell them that I feed them raw food. However, if I told them I was feeding them some Hill's, specially ordered by the vet crap, they would admire me for caring for my dogs. Only twice have I met a person that is not involved with breeding or training dogs that knows what I am talking about when I describe the benefits of feeding raw. I have made my vet a sort of semi believer in what I am doing principally because their teeth are spotless and their health is top notch.

So press on regardless. Ignore the idiots. And remember to not eat dog or any other kind of poop and you'll be fine.

 Quote:

Deep down I know it would be better, but just can't get past the bone thing.

I just finished ordering ground rabbit, goat, lamb, duck with ground bone and organs. As I type I have ground buffalo ready to add ground vegetables to. My dogs coat feels like velvet and is in great health. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Michael - you didn't derail this thread. It's about spreading the word, and if it's causing you to further consider raw then it's a wonderful thing.

Gary and I "over-thought" the decision too. It was good that we did a lot of reading and research first - otherwise we might not have figured out the important supplements and veggies, etc. But it seemed scary at first. Like the other Michael who posted, we didn't hesitate for a second when our fourth dog came home recently. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks again to all for the great links and stuff that helped me in my "debated." And Ed, I hope you never have projectile puke again!!

Beth

i guess i should be grateful for the graphic reminder of why i should always wash my hands, knives, cutting boards, and countertop with anti-bacterial soap after feeding my dog, but since i have a lively imagination, i think i could have been spared the details. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

anyway, to those of you who are nervous about raw feeding, remember that all of us who are veteran raw feeders started out feeling just as uncertain, worried, and dubious about the whole enterprise as you do.

of course you can grind bones, but you really are depriving your dog of a very important part of the diet. first of all, dogs chewing bones is part of who they are--it is very psychologically gratifying to a dog to chew bones. second, it helps keep their teeth and gums healthy. third, it builds up their muscle stregnth, giving them powerful jaws, necks, and shoulders.

you might be meeting their dietary needs with ground bones, but these other needs go unmet. and i don't feel that calcium powder is a good substitute for ground bone. it's too easy to get the ratios wrong.

my suggestion to anyone who is feeling uncertain about the benefits of raw feeding, the disadvantages, the cost, the hassle factor is that you try it. try for just two months. you don't have to commit to continuing to feed raw, it's just a tryout. in two months you'll have all your questions answered as to cost, hassle, benefits, and disadvantages. you'll still be learning how to do it, but you'll have more information on which to decide to make it a permanent part of your life.