=nojavascript...ol('http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/para.utkoma?fadir%3d490063%26amp;modir%3d446114');

Beth this is what I have on the pups lineage. Hope you can make sense of it. Like I said there are a lot of Sch3 in the males line as well as show titles. I want everyone to remember this is my first dog, I am no expert at training. I need a dog that will be able to absorb my stupidity. Hopefully, I will do things right and I feel like having access to this forum is going to help a ton, still people need to remember I am a novice. To acquire a supreme working dog may, in reality, be too much for me, I don't know. Reading some of the posts on the working bred dogs has definitely intimidated me.

Hmmm - I tried several edits on the link you provided, but couldn't get it to work. Can you give me the dog's name and I can just input that to the pedigree database site?

Another question - is the pedigree you are directing us to the dam, the sire, or the actual dog you are looking at buying? (since I couldn't see it!)

Thanks,
Beth
(edited to fix typo)

The pedigree is for the sire/dam of the pup we are looking at purchasing Lets try this
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/para.utkoma?fadir=490063&modir=446114

The fathers name is Wicor PreuBenblut and the dam is Jessy Vom PreuBenblut. I am no expert but they look pretty good to me. V Asta goes all the way back to 1937 and they are good looking dogs. Then again, looks aren't all we are interested in, now are they? lol

Robin,

I tend not to buy into the ‘Golden Middle’ philosophy when I hear breeders of traditional showlines talk about it. To me a V rated working-line dog is as ‘Golden Middle’ as you can ask for. Whether showline breeders would like to discuss it or not, there are many V rated working-line dogs out there. Below is a list of some, many are what have shaped the working-lines over the past 25 years. These are dogs that have worked well and often also produced good working dogs, and at the same time are rated ‘Excellent’ in conformation.

V Nick v Heiligenbosch SchH3, FH
V Arek vom Stoffelblick SchH3, FH
V Gildo vom Körbelbach SchH3, IP3, FH
V Held vom Ritterberg SchH3
V Hassan von den Hasselwiesen SchH2
V Karlo vom Peko Haus SchH3
V Ork vom Wolfendobel SchH3
V Ilja aus dem schwarzen Zwinger SchH3, IP3, FH
V Elk von Karthago SchH3
V Brix vom Kapfwald SchH3, FH
V Eagle v Eichenluft SchH3, IPO3, FH
V Fax vom Haus Bernhart-Mader SchH3, IPO3, FH
V Deika von den Wannaer Höhen SchH3
V Sid v Fasanerie SchH3
V Aik v Haus Cindy SchH3, IPO3, FH
V Sara vom Bramberg SchH3 FH
V Mentor vom Haus Iris SchH3 FH PSH2
V Fero vom Zeutener Himmelreich SchH 3 FH Kkl1’a’
V Cliff vom Schwedenbrunnen SchH3 FH1 IP3
V Xito von der Maineiche SchH3
V Harro aus der Lechrainstadt SchH3, IP3, FH
V Bodo van Tiekerhook IPO3
V Dax vd Kesmarker Tranke SchH3, IPO3, FH
V Bodo v Lahnufer SchH3
V Falko v Haus Sindern SchH3, FH
V Perry v Beilstein SchH3, IP3, FH
V Andy von der Bildsäule SchH3, FH, DH2, WPO
V Uwe v Kirschental SchH3, FH
V Fiasko von Gebrüder Grimm SchH3, IP3
V Troll von der bösen Nachbarschaft SchH3
V Yoschy von der Döllenwiese SchH3
V Aly vom Vordersteinwald SchH3, FH2
V Basko von der Lutter SchH3
V Rex von Karthago SchH3, IPO3, FH
V Cliff von der Möhnequelle SchH3, FH
V Camp vom Mühlteich SchH3, FH
V Askia vom Froschgraben SchH3, IP3, FH
V Xato von der bösen Nachbarschaft SchH3, IP3
V Resi von der bösen Nachbarschaft SchH3, FH

Many of these dogs are sable (because that is the dominant coat color in GSDs), some are Black & Tan, and others solid Black. This is also a phenomenon that you don’t see so much in the strict showline dogs. Most of them are Black & Tan, b/c that is what is apparently favorable to the eye in the conformation arena…but right here you start to see a slant toward breeding for appearance with some priority over character, a slippery slope once you get on it.

The dichotomy is this: Working-line breeders are attempting to produce dogs with the character & health to work well, and intend/hope that the dogs are appealing to the eye vs. Show-line breeders breeding to produce dogs that are appealing to the eye, and hoping that they can do the basic work.

Also, a well bred, sound working-line dog is often much more resilient to newbie handler errors than dogs from other lineages, primarily b/c they are confident, of strong character and have the potential for higher drives that will carry them through situations that more inhibited dogs would have trouble with.

I take it the litter is in Germany? Let me know if that's a bad assumption on my part. I won't get into my list of cautions on importing for a novice if that's not what you're considering - especially in light of your goals.

Mean time, I will get back to you later with some feedback on the pedigree.

Beth

As I understand it, the pup is coming in at the end of the month with two adult dogs that the breeder will use for her own breeding purposes. So, yes the pup is coming directly from Germany.

So John, you really think that as a novice, mother of three, that I would be able to handle a pure working dog line dog?

Caution, caution, caution.

Are you being asked to put a deposit on this pup sight unseen? (I would not.)

Are either the sire of this pup or the dam of this pup among the two dogs the breeder in question is importing? If not, that means you have no opportunity to meet the sire or dam up close and personal, or see any work from them that might confirm the validity/meaning of those titles.

There are just so many ways that people can get ripped off buying puppies. Since I don't even know what breeder you are talking about, I'm not dissing that breeder.

There ARE good breeders (and bad ones) in the good old US of A to work with. (and btw, I'm not recommending the one I bought my own dogs from...)

Beth

Eva,
That was my advice ( which I've posted at least 20 times in the past on the forum ) - for people that want to buy a working dog, take an experienced decoy/helper with you to test the dog. If a breeder won't let you use your own helper/decoy to test their dog, walk away - they're hiding something.
And from my *long* experience in dogs, most Show Lines breeders would not want you to test the parents.

And mixing Show Lines and Working Lines is always a mistake. Just because their are titles in the Show Lines pedigree doesn't insure good nerves or strong working ability ( titles on Show Lines are often simply bought...a real shame of the dog world )
Heck, go to an upper lvl SchH trial and look at the pressure that they put on a dog. Then go to conformation show and watch when they test the Show dogs - the pressure is ridiculously easy, and for those Show Judges to give those dogs "pronouced in courage" is just a sham, plain and simple.

 Quote: will rambeau

Heck, go to an upper lvl SchH trial and look at the pressure that they put on a dog. Then go to conformation show and watch when they test the Show dogs - the pressure is ridiculously easy, and for those Show Judges to give those dogs "pronouced in courage" is just a sham, plain and simple.

*trying hard not to hijack Robbin's thread...*

Will, I totally agree with you about the SHAM that is the test of the show line dogs. There are some of us out here who are working hard to identify show lines with solid working temperaments, and taking the time to lay a solid foundation and actually EARN our titles and respect. We might be a small minority, but we're out here. The thing that frustrates me the most is the self-made "system" as the SV style show people implement it in the US, which does nothing but perpetuate the problem. The truly good German show line dogs get lost in the Sham Shuffle. But Will, I think we're on the same page on some level.

*I promise not to further hijack this thread*

Beth