Will,

Do you honestly think George Bush knows Jack about Military tactics?



Especially what's needed to stop what's going on in Iraq. Has he listen to those that do or allowed them to fully implement those tactics. General Patrias, has great credentials but he's going with about 1/2 to 2/3 the man power needed according to his own guidelines.Patrias said, he needs 1 soldier for every 50 citizens to quell a city like Baghdad. Baghdad has 6 million people at minimum 120,000 are needed. Patrias at best will have 85,000 if all Iraqi units that were promised show up. The real number Patrias will have is more like 1/4 or 1/5 of what's needed.
In 4 to 6 months, George is either going to blame everything on the Shia led Government and pull out or he will try to find 20 to 40 thousand more troops to go to Baghdad. When will our troops get the 90 billion dollars to replace worn out or destroyed equipment. On top of the 100 billion needed to just keep on keeping on. When are we going to replace National Guard equipment they leave in Iraq that was meant to protect the homeland. Where are we going to find the additional troops for Afghanistan that Generals in the theater say are needed. This war will end up costing a trillion dollars.

I'm now military historian but could have told you what would happen because the Iraq war parallels what the French did in Algiers. Everyone should read Battle for Algiers or at least see the dvd. It shows how insurgencies outlast stronger powers. It shows both sides.

The reason I don't think this new surge is going to work is from my reading and from what my friends have told me "don't count on the Iraqis soldiers to fight. 1/2 will not show up for duty. Once the shooting starts 1/2 that did show up will haul ass back to their homes. George has micro manage this war much like LBJ (something he promised he wouldn't do) We have screwed around the last 4 years 1/2 assing spending 400 billion dollars thanks to borrowing from the Chinese. I do not fault the troops, they are doing their best with what they were given.

It falls on one man Commander in Chief George W. Bush. I respect the troops but hold civilian leadership in contempt. Now, George wants to embed Americans with Iraq units which will put our soldiers at more risk. The Iraqi units will frag our soldiers in the near future because they are mainly Shia and have been infiltrated by Iranian soldiers.

Did he listen to Colin Powell or Shinsikee SP?? Who told him more troops necessary to do the job. Did he use the plan the Pentagon had for Iraq that called for 500,000 troops. This was War gamed in 1999 or early 2000 by our best and brightest. They came to the conclusion that more like a million men would be needed to keep Iraq from falling apart into civil war. George Bush has admitted when he's briefed the person must keep it short no more than a couple pages. Sometimes complex issues take more than 2 pages. Because of this man's lack of understanding we are on the cusp of WW3.

By invading Iraq, who had nothing to do with 911. We actually strengthened Iran. We gave them a Shia crescent across Sunni Arab land all the way to the Mediterranean Sea, Something Iran couldn't do on their own militarily. Now Lebanon is edging closer to civil War again. Shia supported Hezbellah in Lebanon are clashing with Lebanese Sunni's. Do you think Syria, Jordan,Turkey or Saudi Arabia are going to sit on their hands while Persians enter and gain control of Arab lands.Which is going to happen now whether we are in Iraq or not.

Great Britain did created modern special ops. Look at the Great empire they had and where is it now. It's back in the hands of the people who never leaves the Natives. If things in Iraq were going so swimmingly why are the British bringing 3500 of their 7000 soldiers home in March or April. Their political and Military leaders are getting the hell out as fast as they can. When the new British government assumes power the rest will leave Iraq leaving our troops to take over the south of Iraq.

George flatly lied about the coalition on the willing we have made up 90% of combat troops from day one. Most countries that are still there are doing humanitarian jobs and are leaving as fast as possible.

How did we conquer the Natives? We killed huge populations with flu, small pox and others diseases. When we fought we didn't screw around we kill large numbers. When they surrendered we tried some hearts and minds BS. We forced them on reservations,taught them English, we married Natives and had children. How many natives in this country can claim pure bloodlines and can actually speak their tribes language?

The Philippines, is run by who now? Filipino's. General MacArthur did a great job. But unlike George, he knew the culture of the vast population. He lived in the Philippines from 1904 to 1914 and severed 2 tours between 1922 to 1930 as second in command of the Philippines Department. The Catholic Church helped allot. Even with his great success there were parts of the Philippines control by Muslims, Mindanao that is still one of the most dangerous places in the world. Home to the Moros who gave our soldiers hell they are the reason the 45 was adopted. They proved the standard 38 revolver was to weak to stop them. Recently the Philippine government, have had some success against Abu Sayef. Guess what members will tone down, build back up and try again later unless they wipe them completely out or change their culture.

sorry, you rag on the National Guard and still claim you support the troops?

My uncle flew with George Bush and the jets they flew were dangerous as hell. Many pilots died flying their missions here in Texas. He retired a Major and flew over 20 years. He is the furthest thing from a draft dodger and he's a brilliant man.

I'd like to see anyone pass the entrance exam just to be able to try and become a pilot, not to mention the physical testing required.

 Quote: tracy brown

.....But, I have a hatred for right wingers like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Ben Ferguson. Who like Dick Cheney and our fearless leader George Bush support war but don't have the strength of character to fight. They let the children of others do the fighting and dying........

.....Rush, George and Dick all supported the Viet Nam war but didn't have the courage to fight.........

.....Sean,Ben and other right wing radio personalities, haven't given up their cushie jobs as talk show host to join the fight in Iraq or Afghanistan.When Ben Ferguson was asked on Larry King. "If you support the war why don't you join the military and fight?" His answer floored me it went something like this "just because I support the New York Yankees but doesn't mean I have to wear their uniform. .........

This shows the real character of these men. They are willing for others to fight what they believe in but lack the courage to fight and put their lives in danger. They sit on their fat asses and make millions of dollars promoting this War.......

....If anyone is responsible for a lost it will be George W. Bush.

Tracy, I am very disappointed in some of your opinions here. Yes, I respect them, but I don't agree with all of them. There seems to be a a lot of Bush bashing and contempt for conservative news broadcasts in your post. Your hatred for the conservative media truly surprises me since the majority of news broadcasts and hollywood productions have a lean to the left and a hidden agenda. Why don't you tell both sides of the story here?

Just to let you know......I watch Fox News, and they are 'fair and balanced' compared to the majority of left leaning news channels. I watch them all.

If you feel so strongly, why are you not enlisted with our army. Or do you just support the troops without wearing the uniform like Ben Ferguson does??????

"The Philippines, is run by who now? Filipino's."

Insurrection crushed, Democratic government established, military agreements signed, Base rentals in place, peaceful turnover July 4 1945, valuable military and business ally ever since. Don't go spouting off bumber sticker prose at people who actualy either lived thru it or studied it.

The only National Guard members I am ragging on are the ones that allowed George W. Bush leapfrog 250 men who scored higher and signed up before him. How did he do that? Being a son of privilege. If he supported the Viet Nam war like he claims why didn't he join the Air Force and fly real combat missions. Bush didn't have the stones. During the Vietnam War the federal government did not call up many army or air national guard units. No Texas Air Guard units were mobilized, although the air guard mobilized 9,343 nationwide. George only flew for 2 yrs of his commitment. He never flew a dangerous mission. He lost his right to fly, failure to take required psychical. But, was fit enough to work on 2 Senatorial races one in Ala and Georgia real hard combat missions. He also was pulled out of barracks and flown to Washington so he could escort Nixon's daughter to a formal dinner. While he was in the Guard he manage to go to the 72 RNC Convention and sit with Richard Nixon. How many combat grunts would have change places with George? Do you think George would have wanted to.

The National Guard of today is completely different. That changed after ending the draft and downsizing our forces giving those support jobs to Halliburton. Now they are being called to do combat. I salute them. The pentagon just changes the rules to allow 24 month deployments and training for the Guard.

James,

I'm not Bush bashing. I'm stating facts he has been Commander in Chief given a blank check for the last 5 years. Under his watch Iraq is getting worst by the day. Afghanistan is getting worst everyday. We are pulling troops out of Afghanistan to send to Iraq when the Commanding General is asking for more to fight the tali ban. George says, he listens to the Generals but it's clear only the one's who tell him what he wants to here.

As for as why I haven't enlisted. I'm a 39 yr old paraplegic. Don't think too many squads would want me slowing them down. If you need someone to push buttons and not put others at risk. I'll go. I do have close family members who are serving in the Army who have both done 2 tours and one that's being called back for a 3rd.

My point about right wing butt boys like Ben Ferguson, who blindly support and never hold anyone in the Republican party responsible is simple. If Ben completely believes in this war, he should get off his chicken-hawk asses and go fight.

Don't any of you find it funny. The only people with combat experience in the Bush Administration advised George not to enter into a second front. Instead he listen to Cheney,Paul Wolfowitz,Daniel Fieth, Richard Perle and Bill Kristol. Not one of these guys have seen combat.

If, I were to take this Country to War. I'd take the opinions and advice of actual warriors rather than members of right-wing think tank whom I'd venture have never been in a real fist fight. When you take a Nation to War either fight to win or don't fight. This Nation conquered the German's and the Japanese in a shorter time than this War on Terror.

I was against the Iraq war from the beginning. Told people at the time it was a mistake. But when America has troops in the field I won't bad mouth them but will try my best to hold the civilian leaders to do what's best by them. Either fight all out or bring them home. My father and Uncle (KIA), felt the sting of the Viet Nam protest directed at the troops and not the civilian leaders who put them there. It is the President who the buck stops with.

What has the Iraq war done it has strengthened Iran. We are one mistake away from setting off a Regional War. Iran knows they can't stop our navy,missiles or Air force. They are going to target our troops in Iraq. They have agents in Iraq and you better believe some of their missiles will find our bases. They will attack Iraq's oil fields, Saudi Arabia's oil fields and we will have 30 to 50 % of the worlds oil off the market. That could easily start WW3.

What happened to Osama dead or alive?

Dennis do you think the Philippines would be what it is without Gen. Macarthur. My point is simple we had men who understood the culture and how to fight. He had Presidents that didn't micro manage everything for him. Is the Philippine a free nation. Are we still running it? If, we didn't turn it over in 1945 and kept the occupation. They would have rose up sooner or later and fought USA for independence. Allot of our relationship has to do with the return of Americans to repell the Japanese who were brutal beyond most people imagination. Our occupation was nothing like the Japanese. My ex-girlfriend's family still to this day hate the Japanese.

Didn't the Filipino's rise up pressure their leaders in 1991 or 92 to not renew our military bases closing Clark and Subic Bay. Today, the former naval base has become the country's first Freeport, hosting more than 170 companies dealing in manufacturing, retail, warehousing, transshipment, recreation and tourism. Next to Philippine firms, most of the investors are from Taiwan followed by the US and Europe. The air base was hit by a volcano don't know what it's being used for.

If my memory serves me we reached a visiting force agreement in 1998. That was after naval and air incursions from Taiwan that the Philippine navy and airforce couldn't stop. Since we are Taiwan's bodyguard could we have been behind that to get some limited basing rights. It is a mutual agreement of interest.

Some very excellent points made Tracy. Actually, some do argue that this is in fact already WW3, just the beginning stages.

There seemed to be alot of venom behind some of your earlier posts. I don't like seeing that, but you cleared things up quite well. Thank you.

However, when I hear personal attacks on individuals because their view of the situation is different than yours, it just seems unfair.

Heck, some people use the "why aren't YOU fighting" defense every time somebody says they support the war. Completely unfair. Your attempting to destroy an individuals credibility and character so others will not take them seriously, instead of arguing facts in a rational manner .

Yes, you stated several facts concerning Bush and the war in your last post, but, facts also can be used to paint falsehoods.

Some people have ideas and notions in their heads about the reality of the war and when they hear information that doesn't agree with their beliefs or perspective, it is disregarded as not credible or a lie. The opposing beliefs are attacked and looked down upon even when they are true or have merit.

Are the facts wrong or the individual perspective of the person.

All that I am saying is that I like to see all sides of the arguement get a fair shake without throwing emotionally charged insults at others. There are facts that support both sides of the arguement here, and your opinion on the subject appears a little one sided.

We do have ourselves in one heck of a mess over there, though. Maybe you should still join up, I hear you can do a lot of damage if your pushing the right buttons as you said! Bombs away!

It is interesting. I happen to agree with Tracy, but am not near as eloquent. They way I have read this thread, I don't see that Tracy has made any personal attacks. Of course you will think his opinion is one sided, every bodies opinion is on one side or the other of this particular issue! I wish that for once a discussion about this subject could remain civil, but I guess not, it is highly charged & emotional for all of us by nature. I do think it is unfair to suggest that those who disagree with Bush are somehow unpatriotic.

Hey Susan,
Tracy has made some very good points on this issue. I admitted that in my last post. His 'personal attacks' on others as I mentioned are there, however, very subtle. Almost like watching two candidates for office argue in a debate and try to cast doubt on each other. They were not directed at anybody here on this forum, only the news personalities and gov't officials he mentioned.

You are right, though. This is a highly charged and emotional subject for us all.

That is why I am not going to post again on this thread. Anyone that wants to send me a PM on my posts here, feel free.

Support our troops and God Bless!

Tracy, yes, as a former Military officer, he has some knowledge of Military tactics. And he has access to intel that we don't have, which makes second guessing him foolish.
You can look up quotes from Clinton, Gore, etc - all of which stated that Iraq was a threat and needed to be neutralized.

And to fly the planes that he did was a far greater risk than say a four month tour in VietNam with bodyguards being assigned to you, ala Al Gore.

As a combat vet, I can tell you that myself and the vast majority of troops have felt better about their service under GWB than any President in recent history.

Just my opinion and not dog related at all....