I would like to see a video of that so called trainer using that much compulsion on a tough dog ( maybe I wouldn't.) That dog needs to be worked with tons of rewards to get her trust back in you. Back your training way up. There is time for corections but seen none in the video. How many times has your freind worked this dog? My boy would laugh at a new handler trying to tell him what to do. Than it might get ugly. Get some help and don't give up on the dog. I have had several Boxers and love them.

I watched the video, and must say that the activities that were going on in that video can't be called training.

It was unfair bullying of a dog who wanted to be ANYWHERE but with that person (your friend,I gather from reading the above posts)

Take Anne's advice, get the Basic Obedience DVD, and start over. That's the great thing about dogs, they can start over anytime. Keep your friend away from this dog, she needs confidence not alpha rolls.... if this is one of the technique he learned at the kennel you mention above, it's very poor advertising for that place!

Not trying to be hard on you, because you are doing the right thing in asking for help. Get the DVD, take some time to make a good bond with her, and show us the "after" video in a couple months.

Best of luck.

Keep your sessions super-short for now. Just two or three minutes at a time. If she likes to play with toys, then play in between sessions. Baby steps will get you farther, faster.

If you get the basic obedience DVD have your friend watch it too. It's hard to learn that way of training (compulsion)first because it has fast results. He'll be a much better trainer when he learns a more balanced approach. He'll have more fun training too.

Keep us posted with Ollie's progress.

Wow... I feel so sorry for that poor dog after watching the video!

Emily: forget about letting your friends work your dog.

Your dog does NOT need to be "put in her place". She's clearly submissive and putting up with the harsh unfair corrections.

We can't explain how to train a dog in a few paragraphs here, so the best thing would be to read through the leerburg website (not the discussion board) and study Ed Frawley's articles on the matter.

Here, read his philosophy on dog training. It's a good place to start: http://www.leerburg.com/philosophy.htm

For now, forget about the corrections.
You need to build up your bond with her and get her to trust you and to enjoy working for you.

What motivates Ollie? Food? Toys?

Use the treats to guide her into the sit, or down, or whatever you want her to learn. Get rid of the prong during training (use it on walks only if she pulls a lot, but don't jerk her around anymore).
It takes a lot of repetitions done in short fun sessions (over several weeks) for a dog to really be solid on a command. Even once they're solid, the dog should still be happy in the work. Your dog looks miserable.

As for the dog aggression, keep her away from other dogs!

Spend that time playing with her, teaching her (remember, short fun sessions - no more than 5 minutes at a time!), walking her, grooming her.

Why would you want her to bond with other dogs? Especially as she gets so worked up to the point of aggression?


I agree with the others who have posted already.

Stop with the corrections and focus on making the training fun and happy for her. Build your bond with this dog.

Think of training as a game. Say "sit", gently guide her into a sit, and as soon as her butt is on the ground, say YES!!! like she just did the best thing in the world and give her a treat.

Do this throughout the day for a couple of weeks.

Move onto the down the same way. Always exhuberant praise and a reward for doing the right thing. See how fast she learns when you do it that way, and how eager she'll be to please you.

Once you figure out a way to keep her working in drive (very motivated) you can stop giving the reward for each good behaviour. Make it a random reward so she never knows when it's coming.

Corrections come WAYYY later!!

Don't worry about that now, just focus on making her happy and make her lessons a lot of fun for her.

By the time she's ready for the correction and distraction phases of training, you'll have time to have read and studied Ed's articles on the Leerburg website and you'll know how to proceed.

Your friend doesn't have a clue what he's doing - tell him to read the site too!!

Good luck and please go easier on that poor dog. Give her a break, she doesn't know what you want from her yet - the ""training"" shown in that video is nothing but abuse!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The way I read that dog is that he will refuse food under stress, and obedience training is stress for him right now. I would just stop training altogether for now and focus on establishing a bond with the dog. Training is bond building but not when the dog has such a negative experience in the training to begin with. The dog looks very soft, n a soft dog will shut down on those corrections. I would sooner choke a dog than alpha roll them, but in the case of this dog there is no handler aggression issue just an unfair handler, so no correction for snapping is needed. It was more of a fear bite than handler aggression. Also it doesn't look like the dog has any bond with your friend, so pointless to have the dog do OB with him to begin with.

There are dogs who work very well and just fine n dandy under compulsion training, but when you choose to train with compulsion you need to understand the dog, you can't just go jerking a dog around. Personally I don't care for strictly compulsion training, it is pointless to me and I advise everyone against it. But if you are gonna do it, you need to at least communicate with the dog properly. You need to be very vocal and upbeat and never angry with the dog. As a handler you should be very animated and fluid in your movements. This is not me telling you that I agree with strictly compulsion training, this is my telling you why your friend is doing it absolutely wrong even for the style of training he is choosing to use.

A dog working only when you have food in your hand is poor training rather than a poor method. If a dog repeats a behavior enough times then it becomes a habbit.

Your dog is submissive and scared, not dominant and needing to be put in his place. Look at the body language, look at how the dog is snapping. It's a quick defensive nip, a fear bite. The dog is not moving with any presence, the tail is not showing dominance, the dog is not trying to lead. If anything, I would try and make the dog feel like he IS dominant so at least there's less cowering.

Thank you everyone!

I'm glad I asked, because had I not, I would have continued on with her training and quite possibly ruined a dog that I can feel in my heart is meant to become something great--as lame as that sounds. I'll be sure to buy the Basic Dog Obedience DVD when I have $40. I am 6 months away from a job, but I might have to start saving up sooner.

Mitch, sometimes I'll turn the leash over to him and let him try some things out on her but it's normally only me handling her since he has his GSD he's training. We were out training off and on(there were breaks) with both dogs on both Sunday and Monday for a good few hours and he was the one handling her majority wise. I just sat back and watched.

I myself has came to the conclusion that she was being submissive by the end of Sunday based on her body language alone. I actually said out loud, "She is fear biting--I don't think she likes how hard she is being corrected." But my friend said she is just trying to dominate us and get what she wants. I was actually going to visit his trainer for help in training but I guess I won't because I don't want her set back even further than she already is.

My friend is thinking about a career in dog training, so I figured him working with Ollie would be good help.

Emily, you shouldn't ever let anyone else correct your dog, that's a mistake. You should also do your friend a favor and steer him towards this site, he's lucky that your dog isn't aggressive. Believe me, i'm not against corrections but that was just stupid and didn't accomplish anything. It's great that your on the way to training your dog, but if it was me i would do everything exactly opposite of your friend, you'll get much better results.....

Consider your advice unanimous. That video almost made me cry.

QUOTE: Take Anne's advice, get the Basic Obedience DVD, and start over. That's the great thing about dogs, they can start over anytime. Keep your friend away from this dog, she needs confidence not alpha rolls.... if this is one of the technique he learned at the kennel you mention above, it's very poor advertising for that place! END

I think that if I were you I would make it clear that my new training philosophy included only ME training my dog -- no handing the lead to ANYone else. That might make it less of a personal attack.

And while I was saving for video #302, I'd be reading all Ed's articles and listening to his podcasts. If you would like a list with links to start you off, just ask.

Yeah, I read his articles all the time. I've learned a lot from his website. I am familiar with it.

I am going to send him the link to this thread, so he'll better understand the new way I will be training Ollie. Plus there is a lot of information in these forums and since he is training his GSD for schutzhund, it will be good reading.

Thanks again.

 Quote: Emily Iniguez

Yeah, I read his articles all the time. I've learned a lot from his website. I am familiar with it.

I am going to send him the link to this thread, so he'll better understand the new way I will be training Ollie. Plus there is a lot of information in these forums and since he is training his GSD for schutzhund, it will be good reading.

Thanks again.

Good move. Your friend will quickly get used to the straightforward way people talk here.