Quote:

Basically she LOVES her toy, so she associates the odor with reward, therefore when she hits odor she begins to salivate and she knows that she has to pretty much pinpoint to get her reward, so she searches until she can get as close as she can.

That is what I thought, but just wanted to be sure it was not the cadaver odour alone that makes some dogs lick their lips (ick!) I was pretty sure it was an association (knowing Pavlov) but did not want to make any ass-umptions. I also did not realise that a dog would salivate for a toy....and I was pretty sure you did not use a food reward.

Thanks for the explanation. It is a nice extra "sign". Obviously really "know" your dog.

 Quote: Carol Boche

Okay, hopefully, with Yuko's guidance, I did this right....

#1 is my Dutch, ROCK, in an air scent exercise, you cannot hear his bark alert because of the wind........

#2 is my Mal, JESEA, alerting on bones.....we took a short clip of her to demonstrate Pavlovian response (licking lips) when she hits odor and alerts on source. I am on my way out the door to test IPWDA Advanced Cadaver in about an hour, so I will post another full length video when I get back......

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v666/bumper01/?action=view&current=ROCK07-01-07-1.flv

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v666/bumper01/?action=view&current=JeseaBonesSlide.flv

I noticed in the video of Jesea that you don't reward her exactly at the source/area of her alert, rather you called her away to reward her.

In training, we always reward our dogs in their alert position and at the source of their alert, so I was wondering if there was a specific reason why you called her away from the area to reward her. I can see doing that at a crime scene (so as not to disturb the area), but not during training. Was it just for the purpose of the video?

Jesea will sit at source for as long as it takes to get her reward, not that I test that very much but she will. I do not see a problem with calling her back.

It varies also, if I am close she is rewarded at source, and if she is far away I have her come back.

She is a dog that searches, finds and performs her alert reliably so I have no problem varying her call back.

Great work Carol! Congrats on the passing test, and thanks for posting the videos - it's really nice to see, especially for those of us who don't have such hard working dogs Just for contrast, maybe sometime I should post a video of Oscar sprawled out on the floor snoring ...

~Natalya

Natalya,

I wish I could get video of Jesea sprawled out on the floor snoring.....hee hee

Good job Carol. Did you ever have any doubt?

Konnie wrote...
"I noticed in the video of Jesea that you don't reward her exactly at the source/area of her alert, rather you called her away to reward her. "

There are time when the dog can't, or shouldn't be given the normal reward. It's nice to know that the dog will continue to work even though it doesn't get their treat or toy. Thats not something you want to find out in a real search. Just saying.

Howard

When training a new dog, I reward every time at source. This builds the reliability of proper detection.

When the dog becomes reliable and is performing their trained alert at source effectively, then I start to change it up to see what the dog will do.

Jesea is at a point where I will sometimes find two hides before the tug is produced. She gets a "Good Girl, nice Fish (her command is "Go Fish"), there's more" and she will continue on to find the next hide. I then reward at that source......

I want a dog that does not anticipate me, once they start doing that, then they are going to throw the alert falsley to see if they can get what they want.
Has Jesea ever false alerted???? You bet....Have I ever rewarded on a false alert???? When I was learning back when she was about 10 months old, yes I did.
Is it in my training records???? YOU BET!!!! Everything I do with the dog is logged. Her video footage is also logged as training records with mistakes and without. I do not omit anything from records. If she takes a dump, standing on her head while working, that gets written down.

I see so many people and work with so many people that do the same thing over and over and over and then ask, "Why is my dog so far behind? Why will she only work when I do this?" and it is because they have conditioned the dog that working only happens in this sequence and if the sequence is broken the dog has a WTF? moment and won't work.
Therefore, I am religious about how my training program works.
I make sure the dog understands the job and then throw out all kinds of REALISTIC scenarios and exercises so that my dog learns to work no matter what is going on.

Some people do not train that way and that is great, if their dog works reliably and training logs show that over 70 to 85% of the time their dog is nailing it, then I do not have a problem with others training methods.
No dog is ever going to be 100% correct every time. I have seen others logs that show that and it is usually because they do not understand the training log concept and once they are taught correctly then their logs change to reflect where their strong and weak points are. This gives them areas in their training that they need to work on. That is what the logs are for.

Some people think that their dog is the "OMNI" dog and never makes a mistake. Not on my watch, no way, no how.....dogs mess up, handlers mess up and you will get eaten alive in court if you try to hide or ignore that fact.

This next part is just a comment not directed at anyone in particular:
People try and pick me apart all the time and that is fine. I am totally confident in my work, training habits and logs AND my dogs work....period. If I get a dog that is haphazard and only works part of the time, I wash it. I have no use for half-assed dogs.
However, I learn from this also, they may actually see something I am doing wrong, that's great. Another tool for the tool bag.

Carol,

Look how much typing you saved me. I always say.."Work smart, not hard"

Howard

 Quote: howard knauf

Good job Carol. Did you ever have any doubt?

Konnie wrote...
"I noticed in the video of Jesea that you don't reward her exactly at the source/area of her alert, rather you called her away to reward her. "

There are time when the dog can't, or shouldn't be given the normal reward. It's nice to know that the dog will continue to work even though it doesn't get their treat or toy. Thats not something you want to find out in a real search. Just saying.

Howard

It was just a question, not a criticism. I know enough about Carol to know she isn't just goofing around with this stuff.

And, I agree with you Howard. However, in my line of "work", I would never make it a common practice to call my dog away from the source of scent to reward in training, regardless of my confidence in his abilities. That's just my style. Dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks I guess.

And yes, good job Carol!

 Quote: carol boche

I make sure the dog understands the job and then throw out all kinds of REALISTIC scenarios and exercises so that my dog learns to work no matter what is going on.

This is the absolute key to success in the "real world." This is the focus of my training/educational group IDK9 (International Disaster K9). We put on workshops/seminars to demonstrate this to people and help them put it into practice. Our motto is "Think Outside of the Box!" Its nice to know others are doing this as well.