Quote: Brenda Mitchell

I also sent an e-mail to Virbac, the makers of Fortiflex, and asked them what the reason is they say you should take a 60 day break from giving the chondroitin pills. Like Connie said, if it's all natural, and can be bought without a prescription, why take it intermittently?

I didn't say that! You are doing what I DID say, which was to ask.

 Quote: Al Curbow

I've got one of my dogs on rimadyl when he's symtomatic. I talked to my vet about the side affects etc and this seems to be the best working medicine for my dog. He has Spondylosis and rimadyl makes his quality of life unbelievably better when he's having trouble, so i use it.
AL

You did the right thing to assess and evaluate and become informed.

I'm afraid that not all vets DO inform the owners about NSAIDs.

I worry about the side effects, too, but I also have a dog on an NSAID (Deramaxx), and I watch him carefully for signs of bad effects, as well as having tests done regularly.

He needs it, even though the glucosamine-type supplements and the fish oil and E did improve him quite a bit, and he stays on them.

Hey Connie, in reading up on Rimadyl and alternatives, I found that A. Rimadyl has the MOST negative cases reported after use and B. Rimadyl has been on the market vastly longer than all the other currently available canine NSAIDS... soooo... my question is, given that ALL current NSAIDS work in a similar fashion (all are selective COX inhibitors) and have the potential to produce really bad side effects, are these newer, alternatives to Rimadyl ACTUALLY "safer", or have they just not been on the market long enough to accumulate the same negative track record?? Maybe there isn't a clear answer here, but I know you've done more research than I, so perhaps you have some insight?

~Natalya

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: brenda mitchell

I also sent an e-mail to Virbac, the makers of Fortiflex, and asked them what the reason is they say you should take a 60 day break from giving the chondroitin pills. Like Connie said, if it's all natural, and can be bought without a prescription, why take it intermittently?

I didn't say that! You are doing what I DID say, which was to ask.

I guess I was putting words in your mouth. oops! sorry! :-)) But I'll let you know what the manufacturer says when get back to me.

Yes, Star is on Kronch Salmon Oil and Vitamin E capsules. I found the capsules instead of the oil (by the way - do I have to break the capsules? I tried it one day and ended up getting more oil on my hands than in the dog food, so I quit and just the who capsule in) and off the top of my head I don't remember the exact dosage but I think I figured it to be 2 capsules equals just a few mg over the normal amount. And since Ed says to go higher for dogs with skin problems, I think it should be okay. I'm watching her to make sure her system stays normal.

She is also on Ivermectin for demodectic mange. (we have a lot going on right now with our "little" puppy). Does Ivermectin interfere with other medications? I thought about that after talking with the vet - he never even asked me if she was already taking any other medication - it's amazing how easily they just prescribe a medicine!

I probably wouldn't have questioned the vet so much if it weren't for the fact that I had read on here previously "do NOT EVER give your dog Rimadyl" (so I kept my ears open for that while at the vets), and also the fact that the chondroitin pills alone did the job almost over night.

It's 00:34 over here so I'm off to bed! I'll let you all know tomorrow what the vet and the Virbac/Fortiflex people say. Goodnight!

Update: (sorry - it's a novel)

I haven't heard back from the Fortiflex makers, yet, but I did go to the orthopedic vet today. When I told him I was there because I had heard about the horrible side effects Rimadyl has, he said, "who did you hear this from?" I said, "I have talked with some friends who have German Shepherds" (didn't quite know what to say because he made it clear during our last visit that he thinks the information I get off of the internet is baloney). His response was, "whatever you heard, it's not true. Only Labrador Retrievers have side effects, but no other dogs. Rimadyl is our drug of choice in this office, and I have never had any dogs with side effects". He also said that there is no scientific evidence that Rimadyl has bad side effects, and compared it to aspirin. Said that "people have been taking aspirin for the past 30 years and it's just now coming out that aspirin might not be good for you".

To make a long story short(er), he said he thinks the internet is full of emotions, and not facts, and I shouldn't believe what I read on the internet. He did give me Previcox pills which is another NSAID, and he said it's not as strong as Rimadyl, but it's "safer". (which I thought was funny because he just tried to convice me that Rimadyl is perfectly safe, but now this Previcox is "safer"!) Then he gave me the insert from the inside of the box and said, "here, you can read about this, but I know you'll just go to the internet and research it anyway!" :-))

He said that here in Estonia they don't give dogs pain killers long term, that's why the Rimadyl doesn't have side effects. They only give for about 2 weeks or so, then they live with the pain. "Not like American's who are constantly concerned with pain and popping painkillers. Then they complain about the side effects". (He forgot he was talking to an American, I guess.)

Anyway, if there were another orthopedic vet in town I would take my business to them, but there's not. For regular visits we go to another vet who we like very much. He did say he would do x-rays on Star's hips at the age of 6 months instead of waiting until 8-9 months. I am supposed to give Star the Previcox for 10 days and then call him after that. I did some research on Previcox and it said that there are some cases where the dogs have had side effects of vomiting or diarrhea, but it doesn't seem to have the negative feedback as Rimadyl.

As far as the Fortiflex goes, the vet said that the reason they have you take a break for 60 days is because the chondroitin is supposed to stay in their system that long, and keep working for two months after the 30 days is up. I said, "well, 3 days after stopping taking the pills our dog was so stiff she couldn't stand up again." He didn't respond to that but when I asked if it would hurt Star if we didn't take a break but continued giving her the Fortiflex, he said "no, it's safe, it won't hurt her at all, but it just won't work". (which didn't make sense to me, as it worked before and didn't seem to be still in her system because it wasn't working after she quit taking it. Why would it not work if we started it up again?)

I'm a bit frustrated with this at the moment, but my husband and I decided to quit the Fortiflex during the 10 days she is taking the Previcox, and to wait until we hear from the Fortiflex makers before giving them to her again. Then at the end of the month, when Star is 6 months old, we'll take her to get x-rayed. But if the doctor finds that she does have dysplacia but doesn't give pain medication long term, what do we do ... just let our dog be in pain? Not really an option.

Google Adequan. A combo of it and high Ester C is awesome for this kind of thing!!!

Well, the Previcox made Star really sick last night. She stayed awake for hours after she normally goes to bed, and was really active. Then finally she went to sleep for about 2 hours, and then was up and down all night after that. At 5, 7, and again 9 this morning she vomited until there was nothing left to vomit, and this morning she has bad diahrrea.

I called the vet who said to give it one more try. He said not to give it with her food but to wait about 30 minutes after eating to give it to her. Then if she has the same reaction tonight he would change her medicine.

 Quote: brenda mitchell

Well, the Previcox made Star really sick last night. She stayed awake for hours after she normally goes to bed, and was really active. Then finally she went to sleep for about 2 hours, and then was up and down all night after that. At 5, 7, and again 9 this morning she vomited until there was nothing left to vomit, and this morning she has bad diahrrea.

I called the vet who said to give it one more try. He said not to give it with her food but to wait about 30 minutes after eating to give it to her. Then if she has the same reaction tonight he would change her medicine.

This is the kind of reaction that is warned about in the package inserts.

It isn't worthwhile to address everything that angers me about this vet's remarks, because you had a similar reaction to them. I would like to point out that the link I provided about safer NSAIDs than Rimadyl is a veterinarian's site. "The internet" is indeed full of crap. It's also full of authoritative information. The trick is to sort them out, and I have a feeling that this vet has not yet mastered that.

I imagine that the US FDA will be similarly useless to him, but it's the first site that pops up when you google dogs on NSAIDs having vomiting or diarrhea.

http://www.fda.gov/cvm/nsaidbrochure.htm

Editing to say that if you are absolutely stuck with this vet, I'd be printing out info like the above FDA warnings to bolster my questions with him. I would rehearse if I had to, because a vet (or anyone taking your money for professional services) who brushes you off the way it sounds to me that he did needs to hear that I want my questions and concerns answered, and not ridiculed.

P.S. I'd also be VERY reluctant to accept the pain management opinions of anyone who said "They only give for about 2 weeks or so, then they live with the pain."

The opinion about Fortiflex makes no sense to me.

The vet needs to respond to your questions until you understand the answer(s), and no brushing aside or ridiculing will substitute.

You are *paying* for this.

I feel so bad for you.

Edit: Did you get to ask about Adequan?

Hey Connie, not to sidetrack too much, but did you catch my question to you a few posts previously, about Rimadyl vs. other NSAIDS? Any thoughts?

Thanks!
~Natalya