Quote: Howard Knauf

Been training dogs how to eat poop since he was a toddler

... and vice versa.

Wow, thanks everybody!

Will, I apologize if these organizations have been discussed before. I did do a search but didn't use the proper keywords or something. I'll try again.

I'm so glad I brought this question here. You see, everyone--including the animal shelters--have been telling me that I should go with the CPDT people because then there is documentation that they know what they're doing, and follow a certain code of ethics. However, after checking out the APDT site, I realized what you posted, Will; it looks like they only need to send in money to get the membership.

The CPDTs I couldn't get much info on other than the trainers have to have a certain number of hours (supposedly verified) and reference and take some test. That's the limit to what I could find out and I thought if anyone knew if this cert meant anything it would be you guys!

One of the two trainers I like only does in-home private sessions so I couldn't see her training an other client. She explained it was because it was in another client's home for one, and also I would be an added distraction to the dog that they were working on. That seemed fair to me--if I was hiring a housecleaner I wouldn't go and watch them clean someone else's house! It would violate the other client's privacy, for one.

However, she did come to see me, and I did go to visit her at her house and saw her dogs. she has two german shepherds and a border collie and I didn't think to ask if they were titled, but they were wonderfully trained and obedient and the dogs seemed very happy to work for her. That's really what got me-her dogs seemed very well-trained AND happy! She was very generous with her time and also very willing to answer any questions I had. She seemed very open and honest. When I asked her why she didn't have the CPDT title she told me that she believed that her results and long list of referals (which she gave me) spoke for themselves and that she said that it was her experience that only the newbie trainers had the CPDT distinction. That's what really spurred me into looking into it. I liked her, but the vets and shelters were telling me that the CPDT was the only sure way to know I was getting someone that would be "ethical" and "proven" or something like that. I admit that I don't know enough to figure out who was right on my own.

The other trainer I like did have group sessions and I did sit in on two of them. WHile she seemed like a good leader, I couldn't tell much because group sessions are hard to really focus on, there's too much going on! She does do private sessions, too, though.

The rest of the trainers all had "certified" before their names and CPDT after them. Some of them only did group training which I can't do, and wouldn't want to do anyway. My local animal shelter and vet's office all told me I shouldn't go with anyone that doesn't have a CPDT title! Has anyone else noticed this trend among professional dog trainers?

Oh, my issue with Mikah is that he's dog aggressive. He has other issues too like jumping and basically being pushy to guests. I know I need professional help for the dog aggression, but I would like to have someone show me how to assert myself better with Mikah, too. I've read lots of stuff here and understand the principles but I think if someone showed me I might have more success.

Thank you all for taking the time to help me out.,

Sara.

Most of the certified people I have seen have been positive only cookie trainers. The certifications mean NOTHING. Your animal shelter is probably trying to get you to go to a so-called "humane" trainer which in their eyes is a positive reinforcement based trainer. You would be amazed to find out how little most vets know about dog training. Dog handling they may know but training is entirely different. Most of the high school kids at the kennel I work at could be trusted to handle just about any dog even the dog aggresive ones once they have been working there for awhile. Would I trust them to train the same dog? Never.

Go with whatever trainer feels like a good fit for you and your dog. One that has a lot of experience with dog to dog aggresion would be the best. A lot of those positive only trainers will just tell you to redirect your dog until they learn to ignore the other dog. While that is part of it the aggresion also needs to be confronted as something that you, the pack leader, will not allow. I would supplement your private training sessions with the articles on this website. I've seen trainers with similar philosophies to Ed but not any that have it quite refined as he does. And if they try to put a head halter on your dog or redirect with treats run away FAR away!

 Quote: SaraMilliken

My local animal shelter and vet's office all told me I shouldn't go with anyone that doesn't have a CPDT title! Has anyone else noticed this trend among professional dog trainers?

Well, first off, Vets don't know beans about dog training, period. They recieve *no* instruction about the subject in their Vet. training and it shows - so a vet recommendation doesn't hold much water as they can't judge a trainer's ability to begin with.

And shelters are usually made up of well meaning dog lovers that also don't know anything about dog training.

So getting a recommendations from two groups of people that can't actually judge a trainer's ability is meaningless.

quote: Most of the certified people I have seen have been positive only cookie trainers. The certifications mean NOTHING. Your animal shelter is probably trying to get you to go to a so-called "humane" trainer which in their eyes is a positive reinforcement based trainer.

This is so true in my area. These trainers are the ones that work at PetSmart, the humane society, and a couple of the dog schools in town that don't really teach any obedience, but do sort of try and teach manners. None of the trainers at the good, competitive schools have certifications. The best thing to do is look at how many dogs are getting titled there and how many people are getting involved enough in their training to be out competing.

 Quote: will rambeau

So getting a recommendations from two groups of people that can't actually judge a trainer's ability is meaningless.

That's what I thought, too! And that's why I decided to ask Leerburg and I thank you for clearing this up for me. The information here has always been top notch.

But just to make sure I understand:

 Quote: cathy goessman

Most of the certified people I have seen have been positive only cookie trainers.

Does this mean that these CPDT people will not EVER use corrections? In other words should I actively stay away from these people or should I just ignore that part of their "qualifications" as being irrelevant?

I've learned from reading here that corrections are often a part of dealing wtih behavioral issues and I don't want to limit my training to someone who has a closed mind. Not saying I want my dog overcorrected either! I just want the "right" kind of traing and it's my thinking that corrections can be a part of that.

Sara,
I'm going to parrot Connie's excellent advice here:

Get the Leeerburg basic OB video and study it ( I based my OB classes off that video for years, and I found it to be incredibly helpful )

Go and watch at least one ( but two would be better ) training sessions taught by any instructor that you're considering - if they're a good instructor, they won't mind.

And watch closely how a potential instructor interacts with their own dog, and how well trained their dog is - if you're lucky enough to catch the first or second class of a basic OB class, the instructor should be using their own dog as a frequent example.


Also, in a previous post you mention about an instructor coming to your home to do private instruction - this can be a good way to learn ( no distractions from all the other dogs ) but the instructor should be bringing their dog along to provide examples of the exercises ( I always did when I was doing in-home OB lessons )

Good luck!

I joined APDT a while back just to get access to their members only email list.Just because you are a member doesn't mean you are certified. There are people on there that seem to have a good grip on the mental workings of a dog and the certification programs do seem like there is quit a bit that goes into them. I think that both certifications are offered by the same group one is just a more advanced degree so to speak. There are a lot of cookie power trainers on there but some do talk about corrections. Don't know tho that certification would mean a lot to me versus a non certified trainer. I'd go more based on speaking to former clients, what they have done with their own dogs and what the relationship seems to be with their dogs. And can't say that I've seen anything that would make me think that having the certification would make a trainer better than one without.


Lisa