Yes, I would like to mention one other method which is an all-positive method, you go up to the bowl and ADD high-value food to it, so the dog associates your approach to be a good thing to add goodies (like chicken), not to take away from them.

Sorry . Should have been clearer. I was wondering what you thought about the possiblity that the advice you had given the OP could potentially get him or someone else bit?

Based on what I had posted on my experiances and the different views expressed on the 3 previous threads on food aggression I supplied ?

Gotta go to work now . I'll be back at 3am .

 Quote: jim nash

Sorry . Should have been clearer. I was wondering what you thought about the possiblity that the advice you had given the OP could potentially get him or someone else bit?

Based on what I had posted on my experiances and the different views expressed on the 3 previous threads on food aggression I supplied ?

Gotta go to work now . I'll be back at 3am .

Yeah, of course, that's why the first line of my response said "I would ask your trainer, too". A lot of things can get you bit when working with a dog. If you correct a dog for aggression, you have the risk of getting bit, depending on the dog and how you do it. That's also why with the dog I talked about, she needed a whole obedience & NILF program, I don't just pick and choose problems to fix by corrections if the dog does not understand a correction, I could read this dog and I knew how she reacted to being corrected. Until I figured out what to do with her, the dog was eating in the crate, and god forbid you even walk into the room when she was eating.

Mike ,

I don't want to rehash what I've written over and over again on this subject . Please read the links to other discussions I've posted on food aggression . I've seen way too many people bitten severly doing what you are doing .

Most people will be able to get away with physically correcting there dog for food aggression and lucky them . But the problem arises when a truely dominant strong dog gets corrected for this someone could get hurt .

I feel giving advice to physically correct their dogs for food aggression over the internet , without seeing that person's dog is potentially dangerous . There are safer , easier ways to deal with it .

Mike A. stated;

 Quote:

When a dog exhibits unwanted behavior, I deal with it on the spot. I do not try to analyze why the dog may be acting out. I correct it.

Well Mike I'm sorry to hear you say that because what you might think is unwanted behavior (growling over food) may just be a dog trying to communicate that it is uncomfortable with you or others around it's food . Not a sign of dominance or future problems .

For me growling as a whole is not an unwanted behavior . It's a form of communication . Growling to display discomfort or a warning is wanted by me . Growling to "test the waters" is an unwanted behavior by me . Growling over the food is something I analyze to determine which behavior it is .

When a puppy / adult growls over food the fear in most people, worried about pack structure ,is that if this is allowed it will grow into pack structure issues down the line . An even bigger fear for some is if these pack structure issues arise things will spiral out of control and they will have an out of control dog .

Thing is IMO , it's not always the case and I feel dogs could fit into 1 of 3 catagories when they do this .

#1 Some(most IMO) dogs that growl over food aren't challenging, they are communicating their discomfort . When the handler corrects the dog for this these dogs usually submit and you solved the problem of future pack structure issues. One you never had in the first place .

#2 Now there maybe be others (puppies / dogs) , that aren't truely dominant that may initially growl for the same reason , they are uncomfortable . These dogs when not corrected for this MAY by accident think they are moving up in the pack struckture and descide to test the waters of pack structure later . But the underlying stressor is still discomfort with others around their food . So you correct the dog . Chances are great you can stop them from growling by correcting , because they are not truely dominant dogs and (due to the correction) easily accept that the handler is the leader and doesn't want them growling . So they stop growling . They don't however stop feeling uncomfortable . Great you've stopped a problem you MIGHT have in the future . In this case I feel the dog is still displaying wanted behaviors . He's growling mainly because he feels uncomfortable .

The thing is with dogs that fall into both these catagories is they aren't truely dominant dogs and are easy to correct out of bad behaviors . So I would rather not correct them for bad behavior that the may never show .

With dogs that fall under #1 or #2 I feel it's unfair to correct them for telling their handlers they feel uncomfortable . Yes , even for #2 because the handler is correcting for something the dog MIGHT do in the future . "Test the waters" as Mike puts it .


For a dog that falls into catagory #2 the question for me is ; " Even though it's an unfair correction , is it worth doing to stop POSSIBLE pack structure problems in the future?

I feel it's not worth it because with this type of dog if I can easily get him to stop growling over food then it would be just as easy fixing a problem when it actually pops up . The dog then knows what it's being corrected for .

#3 is the truely dominant dog . He will in most cases fight for his food when corrected for growling . Mike I hope we both agree that for an average dog owner it's best not to pick the fight and manage it instead .

Someone experianced with dogs could deal with and extinguish that behavior but it's going to get ugly and there's a good chance both parties will be hurting when it's done .

I have that type of experiance and I still choose to manage the problem . I can assert my dominace in other areas to maintain proper pack structure with my dog .

 Quote:

A young dog is testing the waters. It gets a correction and when the behavior abates it gets praise. Ta-dah!

I agree 100% . When it IS testing the waters .

 Quote:

The OP noted a nine month dog lifted its lip and low growled in re food being presented to it in its crate. I wasn't responding to an OP who was presenting a picture of a 'truly dominant strong dog.'

That is a 9 month old puppy that will be growing into an adult dog . When you correct that puppy for growling and he stops , you haven't stopped that dog from feeling uncomfortable with someone around his/hers food . You've extinguished the outward signs of his discomfort not the discomfort itself . When the dog gets older and happens to be the one to grow into a truely dominant strong dog you now may have extinguished the warning but not the behavior to come , which could get someone hurt .

 Quote:

If I understand the gist your response to my response, the only appropriate response to the OP would be a terse: "Get your dog evaluated by a professional immediately." It seems to me that approach begs the objective of this forum.

Nope , IMO the appropriate response in most cases of food aggression is to feed the dog and make sure that it's left alone to eat in peace . Could be a kennel , crate , seperate room . I would also encourage them to maintain good pack structure training with their dog .

Dogs become food aggressive because they have a strong instictual survival urge to make sure they get enough food to survive . IMO ,they are not in most cases testing the waters for dominance . The are communicating that they are uncomfortable . Now if they are coming up to you and taking your lunch away that's another story .

Mike , I usually enjoy your posts . They are so well stated , friendly and clever that I picture Santa Clause at the keyboard . But after seeing many people (sometimes with severe injuries) because they felt compelled to fart around with a dog while they were eating , I strongly disagree with you on this issue .

Coffee ? I need a beer !

Even though the situation I am about to describe involves a new-to-the-house adult, maybe some of what happened is applicable in some other food-aggression cases.

When I adopted this adult (senior, really), he had come from a life outdoors in a kennel.

He was leaning towards food aggression. Specifically, he growled menacingly at the other dogs if they came within about 6 feet of his dish, and he growled less menacingly at me when I walked near it.

This dog was not aggressive in any other way (which was a huge part of my decision about how to handle this).

So I played cop for weeks, standing in the kitchen and verbally correcting any dog who approached another dog's bowl. This included the new one, who was on a drag line for some time but who responded to the no-fooling-around "No."

I also did not invade the space around his bowl, after moving it to an untrafficked area. (I did not see this as a retreat; I saw it as management.)

Fast forward several weeks: The no-longer-new dog has zero food aggression issues.

Fast forward to now: A bonus (to me) was that the dogs all wait away from the bowl of a slower-eating dog, maybe looking wistful but not hovering or threatening.

When I say "Okay!" they all play musical bowls and check out any missed food (none) in each other's bowls.

Of course, this is one experience, and it's about a dog with no other aggression behaviors at all, and it's in a situation that I am able to control 100% with no children, etc., and with other dogs who are very well-trained.

Maybe every situation does need to be addressed on its own particulars.

Good thread.