Pat, one comment to add to Alyssa'a excellent post...
Keep a drag line on your pup when inside. It's much easier to redirect a 5 month old pup with a drag line than by collar grabbing.

And I also tried the cheek grabbing thing with the stern look/voice when mine was a pup. That technique pretty much ensured that she would become more obnoxious and out of control. Better to redirect with a line, then try a quick obedience session (marker training) with some yummy treats. This will distract your pup long enough for him/her to calm down.

I am not adverse to scruffing a young pup for willfully rude or obnoxious behavior.
I just don't like the cheek grabbing (certainly don't want a hand shy pup), and I don't think either method is warranted in 99.9% of instances.

 Quote: Angela Burrell

Keeping your puppy on a leash would prevent the problem entirely.

There's not really much to add to Alyssa's excellent post, which I hope the OP comes back to read, other than to re-iterate what I said before (which I think is the key to managing the environment as others have stated).

Hi all,

Your comments are much appreciated. I think I got the concepts of positive reinforcements. And, as far as "controlled" environment, that's the luxury I do not have. I live in an apartment and do not have our own yard. Living room where with our furniture is where we play. She is always on a line. Am I understanding it right that it's ok to pull the puppy off the furniture with the leash (which might give her a feeling of being popped) when she tries to jump on after saying no and she just ignores it?

As far as having puppy walks in the front, it usually never happens as we don't go for a walk while I have been trying to marker-training her to walk nicely on leash (the training has been going well with me working in different locations with gradually increased distractions). I play fetch and other games with her for exercise (at least 3 times a day). The only time she gets to walk in front of me is when she has to go potty and I let her run to find her spot (on leash) while following her and keeping the leash loose. If she runs too fast and too far and pulls the leash, then I stop and pull her to where I am and ask her to go outside again. If there is anything wrong with this logic, please advise.

And, I didn't know that grabbing a pup by cheeks and staring in eyes is a version of alpha roll and thought it was a decent way to remind a pup not listen up as I remember seeing that from "8-week to 8-month puppy DVD". I might have used it improperly. But, thanks for your advice. I would stop doing that from now.

Raising a puppy (the right way) who is very distracted with anything that has smell and moves in the environment we are in with so many distractions and so little "control" while working full-time is a lot harder and tiring than I have thought. But, I'm certain it can be done.

Thanks again for your advice and support.

Regards,
Pat

 Quote: pat khan

And, as far as "controlled" environment, that's the luxury I do not have. I live in an apartment ...

Controlling or managing the environment means this:

 Quote: alyssa myracle

... Climbing on the couch/table/counter aren't "dominant" behaviors. This isn't a pack structure or respect issue. This is a failure to manage a puppy's environment issue. ... Would you punish a toddler for picking up a marble on the floor and putting it in his mouth? Or would you just keep marbles off the floor?

lol

Yep. Once they learn a behavior, it takes a REALLY long time to convince them that it will no longer happen for them that way.

 Quote: pat khan

Am I understanding it right that it's ok to pull the puppy off the furniture with the leash (which might give her a feeling of being popped) when she tries to jump on after saying no and she just ignores it?

Ideally, you would be watching her and see her start to think about jumping on the couch (i.e. she looks over at it or starts walking in that direction - you will learn her signs soon enough). You would pre-empt the behaviour by offering her a toy, walking away and encouraging her to come with you, or just holding the lead so she can't get that far. In case you make a mistake and she tries to jump up, then yes, say no or ah-ah and pull her off. Then, distract her.

Remember, she does not understand "no" yet, so don't project onto her that she's ignoring you out of spite or dominance. She just doesn't know what is acceptable.

 Quote: pat khan

And, I didn't know that grabbing a pup by cheeks and staring in eyes is a version of alpha roll and thought it was a decent way to remind a pup not listen up as I remember seeing that from "8-week to 8-month puppy DVD". I might have used it improperly. But, thanks for your advice. I would stop doing that from now.

I think you misunderstood what Ed was saying. A puppy can be scruffed, but only as a last resort and only for disrespecting you directly i.e. roughhousing, biting at you and not calming down or redirecting to a toy. It says to the dog, I am the leader and I said enough! Calm down! And you never shake the dog or anything, just calmly hold it until it settles down. Then, praise and continue playing. Roughhousing is something a dog knows instinctively that it is doing and was corrected for by its mother and littermates. This is a pack structure issue. I do not recall ever having to do that to my puppies, though. Remember that Ed raises strong, dominant working dogs with strong drives.

The cheek hold is NEVER used to correct the dog for ignoring your rules that it does not understand yet nor have any way of possibly knowing. For example, climbing on the couch or ignoring a command it does not know. It is your job to teach the dog these things first, in a kind and gentle way - not by scruffing. She should not be corrected for something she does not understand. If she does not know what she is being corrected for, she will soon become hand shy and defensive.

 Quote: pat khan

Raising a puppy (the right way) who is very distracted with anything that has smell and moves in the environment we are in with so many distractions and so little "control" while working full-time is a lot harder and tiring than I have thought. But, I'm certain it can be done.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. It is a full time job in itself. Technically you have a baby in the house. And it will take months for her to learn the rules and grow into a well behaved adult. (My dog wore his tether in the house until he was 10 months old). Setting the foundation for your relationship now will go a long way to a happy partnership. You are getting great advice, just be patient with your little one!

Thanks all again for all good advice and support. I guess sometimes I do fail to even manage my own situation/environment which creates stress to both of us due to scarce resource (time). Speaking of which, I would really appreciate it if any of you could give me a suggestion on making treats in small sizes. So far, I have had to spend 1/2 hr everyday cutting her treats in small pieces so that I can do treat her often during training, playing, etc without having to worry about having a fat dog. She is an 18-lb spaniel but consumes a 1-lb bag of Zuke Mini's in about 2 days (and I halves each of them.) I also use Plato and cut each one into 24 pieces. Well again, it's mostly motivated by her health with our pocket being just a side benefit

You can get a pound of ground poultry and spray a piece of foil and drop little teeny blobs of it onto the foil. (I mean using something like a half-teaspoon measure, not a regular spoon. Teeny.) It doesn't matter what shape, or uniform sizes, or anything. Then stick it in the oven until they are cooked enough to handle/carry/etc.

If you use white meat they will be very greaseless (although you can certainly use thigh meat). Scoop them all off onto a paper towel to cool and then even the spray grease will be pretty much gone.

And these http://leerburg.com/1141.htm have about a zillion in the tub. (I just ordered a couple more today, in fact. They are soft and tiny and the dogs looooove them.)

Add a few sticks of string cheese that you use scissors to cut into M&M size pieces (two sticks at a time) -- takes mere seconds.

This "mixed bag" can be kept in the freezer in a sealed plastic container except for the immediate needs.

You can add little bits of dinner leftovers (tiny) to the current batch, too.

All this makes a huge batch of rewards and a very interesting one to the dog, because she never knows what it will be.



P.S. Even to a dog fed fresh raw food, bits of cooked meat or poultry are not "same old same old." They smell and taste different from being cooked.


Edited by Connie Sutherland (05/04/2009 08:14 PM)
Edit reason: P.S.