Oldearthdog
I disagree with that, because if you read her 1st statement the puppy is already doing the basic 5 commands. She is doing a sit/stay, down/stays etc..., puppies have short attention spands, like children.

I feel any kind of extended test that proves that the puppy has these command down, would help. Really, what is a sit/stay without a time limit?
I feel no real compulsion should be used just positive motivation. Though her goal may not be to be a AKC obedience champion like you, does not mean that she doesn't want her dog to be able to do the OB routines she knows its capable of.

What do you think about that? Is 5 months too young to proof its commands? I usually carry a puppy by its own aptitude. As long as they are having fun and progressing. Consistancy is the key, you are difintely right about that.

Goodogu
I don't disagree with what your saying I just didn't want her to get into marathon stays with a pup. I think patients is the key with a 5mo pup. Early prufing can be as sutle as going from the back yard to the front. It depends on knowing your dogs attention span. A 5 mo old lab is usually still a big clown. Smart, but still a clown. Be happy, be patient.

They say that Labs don't really mature until about 3 years of age.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I agree with the basic idea that it's better to build a solid foundation at this age, than it is to push on to more advanced stuff. I would allow the puppy tons of success, and just keep working on following commands under distraction. No need for proofing yet, this pup should still be learning, correct?

L.
Correct. Proofing in my explaination here, would be commands with light distraction and positive reward for compliance. Don't streach it to the point of compulsion being necessary with a 5mo pup.

Hi Again,
Thanks everyone for your responces!!
Here are some answers to your questions.
Was I sure she was being head strong or didn't understand command?
She definetly understands Sit, Down, Come - Heel she is rather sloppy on - wants to walk ahead of me.
She is plenty use to the SIT command though.
I give her the Sit command every time we go out the door or come in and she doesn't go out or come in untill I go through the door first.
(I started this command early because my father recently passed away, and I am staying with my mother who is 75 years old. And she lets the dog out to potty while I am at work and I didn't want Macy bolting out the door with my mom on the other end of the leash)
And Sit is the command she will try to test me on - Especially when she is off leash -outside - and I want to bring her back in -(Example: I have let her out to potty - fenced in yard - and have taken leash off - and now it's time to come back in - And at this point I can't give her an immediate correction because I do not have a hold on her. But I will tell her to sit because I am going to put her leash back on her - she doesn't sit instead she will run and pick up something to bring to me - I will tell her sit again and she will run to get something else - or she will just jump back and look at me -with a "what are you going to do look" and then I will act like I am going back in the house without her and she will come right up and sit and let me put the leash on her.
She will remain sitting untill I give her the release command - Then we go to the door of house - I give her the sit command - at this point she will usually sit on the first time - but not always - but at least on second time - then I go through the door and give her the release command, and she comes in the house.
I am not giving her any treats for this - it is something we do several times a day -

This is another thing I did want to ask you about though - I use to tell her good girl everytime she sat - but now I don't and this is the reason why -
She has went to some private training sessions (she no longer is, but I won't go into that story right now) But the trainer said that Macy knew the sit command and I didn't need to tell her good girl everytime. And I forget this and sometimes still do tell her good girl - it seems strange not to - but I try to refrain myself because I don't want - " telling her good girl " to be old hat and not mean anything to her. Which is what the trainer advised me on.
But then again she is only 5 1/2 months old - so I'm not sure what I should do in this instance??
Do I tell her good girl everytime?? I was telling her good girl and giving her a pet everytime at her training sessions and the trainer told me this wasn't neccessary.

Oh and on the weight issue she doesn't look a bit overweight - She eats twice a day and very rarely finishes all that I put in her bowl - which is usually 2 cups twice a day of a premium brand natural dog food.
Some days she won't even want to eat her morning feeding so I take it away and don't feed her till dinner.

Treats For Rewards - She does love treats!!
So far the command I always give her a treat for is "COME" and she usually always responds to that one!! In fact we do a lot of our training in the back yard and she loves to chase the frisbee or any kind of ball - I will throw the frisbee and she will be running after it - and midway there I will give her the "COME" command and she turns right around - does not retrieve the frisbee - but will come and sit right in front of me waiting for her treat.
I had heard that COME is probably the most important command - So right now I am giving her a treat every time for "COME" and also sometimes for Down - she is not real thrilled about that command - But if she knows a treat is coming she is a lot better at giving me a Down.
Where I had taken her for private sessions - did not ever give treats for obeying - they gave a leash correction instead. So that is why she learned sit and down without receiving any treats.
But then again I was so strict with her at the beginning - because that's what I was taught - that I feel I missed a lot of the fun puppy stages, and precious bonding times that I am now trying to turn around -
And I just don't want to do this wrong and create a problem for my pup or confuse her.

And why I can see this happening is because one of the times Macy was outside for a potty trip and I wanted to put her leash back on - she raised her hair - barked and snapped at me. This was after I had given her the sit command for the second time. Now I know it's my fault for not having the leash on her in the first place - but this concerned me that this might be a dominant or aggressive issue.

And why I say she is head strong is because when she was going for the training sessions -
They told me she was head strong! But she really can be stubborn! - She was so bad at puppy biting and just wouldn't give it up and she still is mouthy but we are working on that one too - I am trying to give her cheerios as a treat or a dog food kibble cause it's so small and I am trying to teach her "EASY" and not let her have the kibble unless she takes it easy - and she seems - at times - a little more gentle with the mouth - although she is still pretty mouthy and likes to snatch things away. When she was going to her sessions she hated the leash and would attack it - you would correct her and she would attack it again - But then she hated the leash right off the bat as a little tiny puppy and could act very vicious when she would attack it.

And when she is playing with another dog she wants to be the dominant one - Always wanting to be on top and pin the other dog to the ground - Not is a vicious or mean way (so far) but she always wants to be on top and pin the other dog.

I am sorry I am going on and on here - I just want everyone to have a clear picture of my situation.

I hope this answers some of the questions I was asked. A Thanks Again For Your Help - Sharon

Sharon
You had an old time trainer. definately praise when she complies with your command. When she goes out you should put her on a long line. She has learned she can refuse the come command. If at all possible, don't call her if there is a chance she will refuse. This will only teach her she doesn't have to come unless she is ready. Labs can be head strong, and they can be resistant to hard corrections, but they are very intelligent, "people pleasers". When she gets ahead of you during heeling, make lots of turns so she has to pay more attention to you. If you've trained only with corrections, you need to learn more about positive training. She's a puppy. Praise, praise, and praise some more. Keep it fun for both of you. When she is old and gray, praise her some more.

If she's in a situation where she might not come when you need her to, sit down and start playing with the grass or anything. Being a puppy, it will be hard to resist coming over for a look. When she moves towards you, tell her what a wonderful dog she is. Don't grab at her, let her come to you and praise, praise, praise. Give a treat or toy and praise some more.

Several things here:

Her behavior outside (running and picking something up when you tell her to sit, etc.) sounds like a Lab puppy to me! I don't think you should be giving any commands that you are not in a position to enforce. This just gives her the opportunity to blow you off, which teaches her that she *can* ignore you! I suggest you use a check cord when you take her outside. You can make one very easily out of a 10' length of polypro rope or nylon cord, tied securely to a leash type clip (I got mine from the hardware store for less than $5.). This way, if you issue a command, you are in a position to enforce it. She should never have the opportunity to ignore you.

Second, I would praise her every time she complies. This lets her know she's done right. You don't have to gush for a simple sit, but just a quick, light "good girl" lets her know she's on the right track.

Third, I wouldn't throw a frisbee for a Lab. Labs weren't meant for leaping and twisting in the air, like you see Border Collies doing when they fetch frisbees. This kind of activity can harm a Lab's joints. Stick with the ball, or better yet, bumpers (those plastic training dummies they use for training hunting or field trial dogs).

Lastly, what type of food are you feeding her? It's important to manage their growth, so that they don't grow too fast. The food you feed is the key.

L.
I never thought about throwing a frisbee with the bigger breeds, being hard on the joints. Makes sense.

Sharon_M
I feel you need to add to what you were taught, but when you give the "sit command", change your voice tone and praise with "good girl" the dog can tell the difference in a tone change and praise and will sit faster and more consistant.
You old trainer is right if you don't change the tone of your voice.

The "Come" off leash outside can be accomplished with the help of small treat, when the puppies outside put the leash around your neck, bend down and say come, open your hand with a small peice of weiner in it, shake your hand to get her attention, when she comes let her get the treat from your palm instead of feeding with your fingers, this stop the mouthy reaction. You can leash her now, but I wouldn't I let her paly again and after a minute or two kneel down and give the "come" command again, treat and praise.
This will make coming to you more important then wanting to play to her.

Raising a puppy is fun, but its also demanding, your puppy must be strong, the old complusion tactic can ruin some weaker pups.

Oldearthdog
You were right again, I see you are becoming a regular Richard C. with your tactiful way of debating and appoarch to training. Thats a compliment if you missed that.

L-Swantson
You'er always right. Rules of engagment with a women, no just kidding you are brillant. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />