If you are already that ambivalent about Chief, then I'd say return him and see if the rescue can find a better match.

What does it for me is when you say, "we do want to have children in the future," with the clear implication that it will be the dog or the children. There are endless dogs being rehomed or turned into shelters due to, "we just had a baby, and...(fill in the blank...not enough time for the dog; dog too interested in the baby, etc.)"

From what you have said, this dog doesn't sound terrible to me. He just needs the right owner(s) to work with him correctly and provide the right home and leadership. In other words, don't talk yourself into keeping this dog mostly due to how hard you think it will be for the rescue to find a more appropriate home for him.

I realize you already feel love for this dog, but IMO, love itself isn't enough. You have to be ruthlessly honest with yourself about the actual match up and keeping your future plans for children firmly in mind.

So, there's one opinion for you<g>.

leih

 Quote: Vanessa Fullerto

I am a little worried about Chief's dominance issues in the long term.

I don't want to put us or Chief in a position where we have to get rid of him when babies come along. I would rather go through that pain now then later. Any advice?

Maybe I'm missing something but Chief sounds like an untrained adolescent dog.....I don't see a dominance issue. If anything he seems to want to work with you. He is not trained since he is new to your home and has never been taught by you. You need to start from square one; trained and obedient to someone else is not the same thing as trained and obedient to you. My dog is 9 and knows all his commands and doesn't hesitate to comply unless you are not me or someone else in his pack then he knows nothing.

I have to agree that the comment about the babies and giving the dog up makes me very wary for you. You sound like you will make a great owner in the future but maybe the kids should come first and bring a dog in when they are older. I too have worked in rescue and hello baby good bye dog is oh too familiar a scenario.

 Quote: leih merigian

What does it for me is when you say, "we do want to have children in the future," with the clear implication that it will be the dog or the children. There are endless dogs being rehomed or turned into shelters due to, "we just had a baby, and...(fill in the blank...not enough time for the dog; dog too interested in the baby, etc.)"

I realize you already feel love for this dog, but IMO, love itself isn't enough.

Leih makes some very good points.

Realistically, on the "baby" front, how long are we really talkin until there are rug rats on the scene? Not only is this dog young, he's just entering what I would consider THE most difficult period of mental maturation - the 18-24 month phase. At this age, he's nearly full grown, he's still got BOUNDLESS energy (and determination) AND he's juiced full of hormones that are shaping his "adult" self - he's gaining confidence, willfulness, and learning his own strength through testing those around him. It's not an easy time, but it doesn't necessarily define the dog (unless you let it).

From my experience, with dedication to training, pack leadership, and a patient, firm hand, once you make it to 2.5-3 years old, things start getting a LOT easier. YES, there is a lot of work to be done to get there, but I don't see why, if kids are still at least a year or 2 away, this dog can't mature and be molded into a perfectly well balanced family companion. You just need to WANT IT. And as Leih so aptly stated, "loving" the dog itself is far from enough in this respect.

One thing I would absolutely work into my training if it were me is a BOATLOAD of socialization with kids, of all ages, asap. Sometimes even expertly trained dogs just don't care for the fuss of young children - it would be good to get a feel for this dog's comfort zones now rather than later, if you really do plan on sharing the home with kids. Wish I'd done the same earlier with my dog, who has only recently become comfortable with "little people" around him... Just my 2 cents.

~Natalya

I am totally willing to put in the work to train Chief. I really have no experience training a dog. I'm not looking for an easy way out, I just don't have the experience to know what can be trained and what can't. My original thinking was, "I just have a little teenage brat on my hands who needs to know who's boss." It wasn't until the trainer from the rescue came by yesterday and said he thought there was something "off" about Chief. He originally said "retarded" but later said that he didn't mean that and that was not right. But he still thought Chief is missing any playful puppiness, he's very serious. He is still adjusting to us though, so maybe that will come with time. We did hear him bark for the first time yesterday. Again, I did not mean to come off as ambivalent. I really want to keep him and train him. I feel very lucky to have found this site and can't wait to get my DVDs tomorrow. I just wanted to get more experienced opinions on whether I was being realistic thinking that he will come around.

 Quote: vanessa fullerto

I am totally willing to put in the work to train Chief. I really have no experience training a dog.

Not to worry there , if the desire to create a successful working relationship with this dog exists in you - AND your boyfriend - then all you need to do is start learning! We've all been in your shoes, and I personally can COMPLETELY relate to getting in over my head after deciding I'd just "get a puppy"... in hindsight, I'm really glad I was dealt a very serious, dog-dominant dog that forced me into a steep learning curve I would NEVER have entered had I gotten a more "easy keeper" (but it's pretty impossible to develop hindsight until you're actually a few years down the road... )

 Quote: vanessa fullerto

It wasn't until the trainer from the rescue came by yesterday and said he thought there was something "off" about Chief. He originally said "retarded" but later said that he didn't mean that and that was not right. But he still thought Chief is missing any playful puppiness, he's very serious.

That's pretty unprofessional commentary, if you ask me. A serious dog does NOT equal a dumb dog, quite the opposite. You may very well have a serious individual, who behaves more maturely than other pups his age, but unless he's exhibiting other signs of mental illness (which I don't trust this particular trainer to diagnose, from the little you described), I would just accept him for what he is and work with it. It also sounds like you're already making some progress instituting NILF - which is a great sign. Don't expect anything to happen overnight - the training you're working towards is achieved by baby steps - consistent, steady, baby steps.

~Natalya

I agree with Natalya....don't put a lot of stock into the serious comment...as a matter of fact go back and read your posts about him jumping and nipping the arms and flinging a toy around and then jumping on you to play though not what you want I'd describe that as "playful" (gone wrong)

My number 1 suggestion to you is; get to know Chief. I'd steer clear of corrections until you have worked him through the different training stages; however managing his behavior so he does not get to practice what you don't like anymore is very important. Use his leash to instill manners not with corrections at this point but to keep him from biting.

For instance Chief jumps and latches onto your boyfriend's arm; take him by the leash and attach him to a doorknob or other place where he can not get to you. Even better if you can step on the leash before he jumps (one of the few comments from the trainer that I liked) Done consistantly you will soon notice a decline in the frequency.

In the meantime glue yourself to your tv and take in all the info in the DVDs and then watch them again and again until a clear plan forms in your head of how you would like to proceed.

You can do this on your own and will receive lots of help from here but since it is all brand new; if you can find a reputable trainer who uses markers; a one on one session may be a great help in getting you started. I think I would stay away from the trainer that helps the shelter; he is already biased about your dog. Someone new and objective would be better.

Goodluck!!

We have tried to implement the trainers suggestion of stepping on his leash when he bites, but things just seem to keep escalating. We have both had some brawls with Chief attacking us and growling. We're kind of at a loss of what to do. If we just step on the leash he attacks our legs. It only works if we're actually standing on the very end of the leash and his head is practically stuck to the floor. Even then, he'll calm down but sometimes just comes right after us again when we let off the pressure. It doesn't seem like he's playing. We've also tried grabbing his collar to get control but that really just seems to get him even more worked up. Should we just tie him off when this happens? I'm sure we aren't handling this correctly and I'm also guessing we are inviting this in some way. It's very upsetting though. My poor boyfriend is badly bruised all over his forearms and the "attacks" are getting pretty frequent. He attacks both of us, but my boyfriend seems to get the worst of it. I think I am a little more forceful when it happens. Does this behavior not warrant a correction? I know he's still a puppy at 14 months but he is hurting us badly. No torn skin, but lots of bruises.

Vanessa,
Have you tried redirecting him with a toy when he starts to go for your arms and legs? Give him a negative marker, like "Ah-ah", then entice him to switch his bite from you to a tug or chew toy... you're right, he shouldn't be attacking you, but he's looking for an outlet for a whole lot of energy - repeatedly telling him "NO" and to "QUIT IT" don't do anything to release that (and most likely make it all the more frustrating for him). Teach him that there are right and wrong things to furiously attack, that way his needs will be satisfied while keeping your limbs free of bruising. Just a thought.

~Natalya

Vanessa, can you describe your exercise routine with this pup?

A few walks a day is probably not enough, and lack of exercise can contribute to the mouthiness/frustration that your dog seems to be exhibiting. Take him someplace safe where you can get him tired (tongue hanging). chasing a ball, or a frisbee , etc...

When he mouths, say 'No', calmly grab his leash (not his collar), and pull him very close to you and hold the leash very firmly so that he doesn't have a lot of wiggle room. Don't release him until he calms down.

Do not push him off you with your hands; this will just encourage him to mouth or jump on you. Control him with the leash and a calm voice...

Do not roughhouse with him at this point. Again, this will encourage him to mouth you...

He sounds like a nice young dog who's had no training and needs to learn some manors...
Check out another trainer if you can...

Thanks for the suggestions. I took him to the local dog park a couple mornings to try and run him a bit. I go at 6am when it's empty.

I didn't bring any toys with me but there are always balls laying around and when I throw them he doesn't seem to care. He's so busy sniffing around I usually have to start running to get him running. Unfortunately that usually instigates a jump and bite scenario. Since I take off his leash when we enter it's a lot harder to control him. Should I just leave the leash on? I didn't want to trip him up when my goal is getting him to RUN some energy off. I do have a Chuckit! Squirrel toy and a frisbee that he's never played with that we could try.

I have tried many times to hold the leash when he bites but he's 70lbs and STRONG. I can get him under control sometimes, but only if I pull on his (martingale) collar. He's learned how to squirm out of it after lots of practice though.

I did try Sheila's advice of looping him on a door handle at home when he gets going. He would calm down, I'd try to give him a toy and then he'd just start at me again. Over and over and over. He care's nothing for toys or bones when he wants to bite us. Maybe he just needs a buttload more repititions of cranking himself when he lunges while tied off to learn it's not so pleasant.

The DVDs are out for delivery as I type so I will be watching them ASAP when they get to my door. I also have some problems getting him interested in clicker training. I'll post about it under a more appropriate forum.