Do anything you can to defend your animal, unless you want to see the dog injured, or killed. That is the harsh reality. I have no qualms about taking Eds actions to defend my animals. I take it a step further, I rarely leave the house without a firearm. I have a CWP, it's legal here.

Most leash laws will protect you in this type of case. You have your dog on leash, they don't. It is pretty simple. At least it is here in my state. But, when it comes down to it, better to have to pay the price to defend your dog, than bury him/her. I've done that. . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Torre, you're an attorney right? Law folks, gotta love 'em. I have one of you little pitt bulls working for me in my office and you guys are all the same. That is NOT A SLAM, I appreciate your minds. Always looking for an angle. . . Tough little buggers too. Funny stuff working with you guys. I like your posts. Even if I hadn't read your profile, I could see what you do for a living. I hope that doesn't piss you off. I have enough legal problems. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hell yes Chuck, that's the way I see it. Spray the both of them hosers. (not a joke) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I fully support the right to defend yourself. However, a judge or jury will decide if it was reasonable. And remember, here we are talking about "not waiting to see if the dog will be friendly to your pup." Theories that violating leash laws makes him responsible for his injuries or that the dog looking at you is like a loaded nuclear weapon just aren't enough to cheerfully bet on in court. Those are merely questions of fact that the judge or jury could decide either way, to which your state law will then be applied.

I'm not a dog trainer, but I am an attorney and a Jiu-Jitsu instructor if you want to know where my perspective comes from. (The odds are at least 49/50 that I am not licensed in your jurisdiction so consult with an attorney from your state for your state law. Nothing in my posts constitutes legal advice).

There are things you could do that could help possibly change the facts favorably for you: (1) asking the guy nicely to get his dog, especially where witnesses can hear it (2) picking up your puppy if possible (3) backing away, where you may safely do so, especially where witnesses can see you doing it (4) pulling your puppy close to you or behind you, so it is obvious to all witnesses who the aggressor is, and keep the pepper spray in a nonthreatening but ready position for when it is necessary and reasonable to use it (5) don't curse or seem to be the verbally agressive one (6) at least wait until the dog does enough that you can explain why you knew he was about to attack (why your actions were reasonable, or even better necessary for your safety) (7) act in a way such that the truth would win in court for you. People who make false police reports or commit perjury often regret it.

A lot of you guys (and girls) know more about dogs than I ever will. But some tend to have very optimistic legal conclusions that just aren't completely justified. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> )

Thanks VanCamp...I think...lol. (saw your post after submitting mine). Trust me, if pitbull was the worst thing anyone ever called attorneys, I'd be thrilled.

Yes, I am an attorney. (But none of my posts are legal advice, since the law in every state is different). However, as a general statement, the typical leash law is simply to penalize the person who doesn't have his dog on a leash. It is certainly relevant if he was breaking the law, but I must get you guys past the idea that it gives you the freedom to do whatever you please to the dog (or owner). I've never seen one that says "If a dog is not on a leash, you can just go up and spray pepper spray on it, and then kick the owner's ass." It might be nice, but it's not reality. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> )

Torre,

The whole "kick the owner's ass" thing was a whole lot of toungue n' cheek. I realize you can't just go around kicking people's asses!LOL I fully advocate calmer, civilized verbal warnings first. If the guy attacked me then I would obviously defend myself though.

Your legal perspective is very educating. I for one enjoy your insight. Good posts.

Torre, thanks for the posts. I do see some apprehension in your overall attitude though with all of your "this is not legal advice" disclaimers. I think this might carry over to your attitude on this paticular topic. If I am walking in my city with my dog and some jack-ass doesn't have his dog under control, and it approaches me and my dog, guess what, I will take my chances when it comes to legal consequences. Believe me, with all of the real bad guys out there, I don't think I would be a top priority for LE here in Vegas because I pepper sprayed some out of control dog that was threatening harm.

Torre wrote: There are things you could do that could help possibly change the facts favorably for you: (1) asking the guy nicely to get his dog, especially where witnesses can hear it (2) picking up your puppy if possible (3) backing away, where you may safely do so, especially where witnesses can see you doing it (4) pulling your puppy close to you or behind you, so it is obvious to all witnesses who the aggressor is, and keep the pepper spray in a nonthreatening but ready position for when it is necessary and reasonable to use it (5) don't curse or seem to be the verbally agressive one (6) at least wait until the dog does enough that you can explain why you knew he was about to attack (why your actions were reasonable, or even better necessary for your safety) (7) act in a way such that the truth would win in court for you. People who make false police reports or commit perjury often regret it.

Joe Noble: O.K., I don't where you live, but I don't live in Utopia and all the bad guys don't follow the rules to the letter. I think Ed's article is very street wise. That is the way Ed is, he doesn't sugar coat stuff to make it politacaly correct. He tells it like it is with real world advice. I am guessing you practice tort law because your posts are very pro-plaintiff oriented. That is O.K. as we all need to make a living. I just keep thinking about the lady who collected $2 million from Mcdonalds for spilling coffee on HERSELF. She got the money, but does that make it right?

I would advise anyone to first visit some of the past threads in this category before commenting on Ed's article. After reading some of the horror stories you might change your minds.

Rott, no apprehension here. I'm just trying to help.

No I don't pratice Tort law. I'm an attorney for a Federal Law Enforcement Agency (though on this board, I only speak for myself).

I simply brought you the legal reality that these PREEMPTIVE strikes against dogs not yet acting aggressively in most states can bring you a painful amount of trouble. I really don't mind what you do with that information. Let's not forget that in your post you changed the facts from the article's "not waiting to see if the dog will be friendly" to it being an "out of control dog THREATENING (emphasis added) harm," which is a different situation entirely. Further, it doesn't matter if its not Vegas LE's priority- the other dog owner can easily press the issue. And finally, it also doesn't matter if the act is "streetwise"-the prisons are full of streetwise people.

Regarding my disclaimers you mentioned, most competent lawyers who post concerning a legal topic on the net will state that their post is not legal advice to ensure that an attorney-client relationship is not formed, which has brought lawyers who failed to do so a multitude of very serious problems (the details would be boring, but be comforted in knowing that I don't make the disclaimer because I'm unsure or apprehensive- its necessary). Don't mistake my thorough and methodical nature for fear or apprehension.

In conclusion, I suggest a course of action that keeps you and your dog safe, AND prevents legal woes. It's not really mutually exclusive. As I stated originally, it should be obvious that attacking too early can actually increase the danger to you and your dog. The key is acting at the appropriate time in an appropriate, reasonable and calculated manner.

Vince, Regarding the horror stories, I appreciate what you are trying to prevent. However, I submit that you can be effective within the limits of the law. And you must, unless you are willing so suffer for it. Legal results can sometimes depend on minor changes in facts (i.e. actions). Make the law an ally, not an enemy.

There is one variable that you are leaving out. The owner of the dog.I understand of what is being said. I would do what ever I can do to protect my dog. That also means that if my dog got loose for what ever reason, and she is very dog friendly, but her body language of stalking like a cat could be scary for someone.The point is if some yahoo starts spraying kicking or hitting my dog for no reason then they will have to deal with a very angry me. I know that most of you feel the same way. Which one of you will just say sorry thanks for spraying my dog.It's a ugly situation any way you look at it.

Milt, you are probably a RESPONSIBLE owner who wouldn't let your dog out of your control in the first place. If your dog got loose and started stalking me and my dog like a cat, well guess what, kitties gettin' sprayed. I wouldn't be a yahoo either becuase I would have no way of knowing if your dog is friendly or not would I? I would just be taking the appropriate measures to defend my dog and myself.