Yes could be one reason, because yesterday when I walked with the bitch and somebody was approaching I was not stop, just only still walking, and the behaviour of the dog change, she was payed attention to her owner, we need to work a lot. I´m the last key, because if she wont change she will die.

The first thing that needs to be addressed is a Pit most likely will not live peacefully with 6 dogs in a home enviroment. She is not Alpha Yet and I stress yet she is only 8 months old. He either needs to get rid of the other dogs or get rid of her period. Or the other alternative is to put her outside in a kennel all by herself. That is the only 2 options IMHO. Second 8 months old is VERY young for a Pit. That is about the age they will test their alpha status or dominance. Here is what I would and have done in the past with my Pits. I would correct the snot out of her until she wouldnt try to bite and she knew I WAS ALPHA. This is the only way with a PIT and only he can do it if he wants to be alpha. If he is scared say he is scared. LOL. Seriously though he needs to do this and make her back down. Be very careful not to get bit. While on a leash if she charge to bite pick her off the ground with a choke collar. I would do this ASAP if he waits 8 more month and she matures and gets heart and courage he will not be able to break her. Good Luck and be firm.

Shane, very good post, this owner should heed your words. It will only get worse as the dog matures. Again good post!

I agree. I don't understand why someone would try to get a pit bull to live peacefully in a home with 6 other dogs. That's too many dogs living together in a home no matter what the breed IMO. The environment around this dog appears to be a big problem. Until that is fixed, I don't see anything else changing anything.

Marco Sandoval wrote: When we gave the correction, pulling the leash and a choke collar, she tried to kill us, but when we control over her, using food and try to pay attention to us we won.

Joe Noble: Actually, I don't think you won here at all, I think you lost. When you tried to correct her you challenged her alpha position and she succesfully backed you down. So then what do you do? Well, you give her food and now she is being good. That tells me this dog has full control over the situation.

Correct me if I missed something here but it seems to me someone needs to bust this dog's ass before it gets out of hand. Another thing, this whole 6 dog thing, what is the purpose for having 6 house dogs?

 Quote:

Originally posted by rottnvegas:
Marco Sandoval wrote: When we gave the correction, pulling the leash and a choke collar, she tried to kill us, but when we control over her, using food and try to pay attention to us we won.

Joe Noble: Actually, I don't think you won here at all, I think you lost. When you tried to correct her you challenged her alpha position and she succesfully backed you down. So then what do you do? Well, you give her food and now she is being good. That tells me this dog has full control over the situation.

Great post Joe. Many times the word "bribe" is mis-used to describe what we all call positive motivation using food reward. However, here we see the true meaning of a "bribe". Instead of demanding good behavior thru strong leadership, we are bribing the dog to behave. IMO, this dog needs to be MUZZLED and tought who's boss through solid obedience training with a prong collar. And yes, 6 other dogs surely dosen't help.

Chuck F. wrote: IMO, this dog needs to be MUZZLED and tought who's boss through solid obedience training with a prong collar.

This dog seems so confrontational that I’d avoid more head-on with him. I’d recommend the muzzle for safety but I’d suggest some yielding exercises instead of “solid obedience . . . with a prong.”

This is from Dick Russell, a trainer in Louisiana. “Yielding is a concept that I stole from the horse trainers, primarily Pat Pirelli. It is based on the idea that among group dwelling animals the more submissive will move out of the way of the more dominant and that the more dominant ones solidify their position by ritualistically having lower ranking individuals move from their path. It is an interaction between two animals in which one is displaying dominance and the other, appeasement.

With the dog on lead, primarily to keep him in the vicinity, and with the lead loose, start walking into him saying "move, move, move." You are not to kick the dog. If possible, you are not to bump the dog with your knee, though as a last resort, with some, this at first might be necessary. Except by accident, do not step on the dog. What you are attempting is to have him move, propelled by the power of your personality.

In early training, this is negative reinforcement. A cardinal condition of negative reinforcement is that the animal be allowed to learn how to escape the pressure. Your forward motion is pressure. Any movement out of your way, by the dog, must result in you giving him relief. As training progresses, you can demand that he move farther before you give him relief.

I have found that initially, moving into him head-on works better. Later we ask him to move as we approach a shoulder. Later from his side and finally from the rear.

In very early training, have him move several times in a row - say 5 to 10. Once he's learned the drill, have him yield to you about 10 times a day at random times.”

Very interesting Lou. One thing I will say is that it is tough to give advice on this kind of dog on-line. I agree, the dog does sound very confrontational. I really think the environment the dog is in is really at the root of the problem but I guess that is really a seperate issue from what we are talking about now. It comes down to patience and I guess I'm not sure I would have the patience to deal with this kind of animal as a HOUSE dog. If I couldn't teach the dog who's boss without getting my head ripped off, I'd find a better trainer than me(which isn't hard!LOL) or I'd put the dog down before someone gets hurt. I suppose I have exposed my weakness as a trainer but some battles to me are just not worth me getting attacked or having the dog around long enough for someone else to be attacked. Needless to say, I respect what you are saying Lou.

PS.....To Everyone: I am NOT suggesting this dog be destroyed! Just wanted to say that before I get hammered. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Let me also clarify and say that I understand that in some situations going toe to toe with the dog is not the way to go. I have tried different approaches with a dominant aggressive dog or two that have worked. I'm just saying that if I had to bribe the dog just to make a livable situation I'd go nuts. Lack of patience. Sounds like the stuff a good dog trainer is made of huh. :rolleyes: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Settle down or hit delete now, this could get to be a long one.

Chuck you’re certainly right that doing diagnosis via Email is quite difficult. That’s why I advocated the least confrontation approach that least likely to cause more confrontation.

And long before I’d consider putting a dog down for aggression problems I’d be doing some work with him with an Ecollar. I know, I know I suggest the Ecollar for EVERY problem that comes along, well almost, but dealing with aggression there have been some great successes. But if I talk about mine you’ll all lose interest. Here’s one of my favorites from Larry Tillack. Larry’s a SAR worker in Ohio who also volunteers at a shelter.

Larry wrote:

*****We got a dog returned to our assistance dog training center that was demonstrating serious aggression issues. He was attempting to bite men and women, was even successful on one woman. Thankfully the woman was one of our supporters and the bite didn't break the skin, but only because she was wearing a heavy patrol coat (she's a police officer). She did have bruises however.

*****After a thorough evaluation, we are guessing that this dog had been subjected to physical abuse in a home attempt to "protection" train him (you know the type, abuse/tease/poke the dog until he's mean and will bite anything out of defense). He's a black lab!! We started an investigation and have found that we're on the right track with our thinking. Needless to say that person is no longer able to foster dogs for us.

*****Anyway, we got him back last monday and after the evaluation, decided the only viable option was to euthanize him because we just don't have the time that it takes to rehabilitate a dog with aggressionn this severe. I've done rehab work in the past with dogs (not this bad) and it was always a long process (average of a year). The appointment was set for the dog (Simon) to be put down on Friday April 12th.

*****Since I had four days, I decided that there may be something I could do (wouldn't hurt if I tried). I contacted Lou Castle, because I've read articles by him and had e-mail conversations with him about using the e-collar to quickly and effectively rehab aggressive dogs. Didn't know if it would work on a dog that was this bad... but the director of the facility agreed to let me give it a shot.

*****Simon showed enough improvement after two training sessions (Tuesday and Wednesday) that he was given a one month extension to work with me. YAAAAY! Simon!!! I don't think any of this would've been possible without the e-collar.

Larry provided an update on Simon.

*****For those that are interested. I spent the last two "sessions" basically just playing with Simon. Letting him just be a dog. He's started meeting me at his kennel door with a "smile" (he kind of scrunches his whole face up) and a wagging tail. So, I moved him on to a little more "social" work.

*****Tonight, Simon was exposed to two strangers (at his kennel). He did incredibly well. The helpers were instructed to approach the kennel and then kneel down near the door and not make any eye contact with Simon and to totally ignore him (no talking to him or patting for him to come over), they were also told that if Simon displayed "nice" behaviors to calmly rise and walk away. With the first person (female), Simon barked a little, ran into his dog house, then came out and sniffed thru the gate and started wagging his tail. With the second (male), he only barked and then came over to sniff - wagged his tail again.

*****I later had him out for a little work and he was introduced to both of these individuals and he even pushed in a little for extra pets. The woman had a bag of treats and Simon was very polite and didn't try to "steal" any.

*****One of the women that had an "experience" with Simon before the training started was blown away that this was the same dog. I sent Simon to "PLACE" from about ten feet away and then command him down/sit/down. Left him in a long down stay (6 minutes) while we chatted about his training. Needless to say, she was asking the director if we hadn't "exchanged" dogs!

And then another update.

***** He's doing fabulous. He's been up for adoption for a couple of weeks (so far, no one has asked about him). I brought him to my house last Thursday evening and he's been there ever since, having fun with my dogs and just loving all of the neighbors that come to the fence to pet all the dogs.

*****He interacts great with my dogs, playing with all of them extremely well. Since I've taken him home, I started playing with "Retrieval Work" using the method that Lou demonstrated at his MI Seminar. It's such a shame that he's not an option for service work anymore (because of his history and putting his teeth on a person) - HE'S SO SMART. He learned the "Take It" command and was holding my hand without fighting after about 3 tries. I switched him to a soft object and again it only took about three tries for him to hold it. Within 4 or 5 sessions he was picking up just about anything I'd ask him too... he didn't like the keys, but he did pick them up and give them to me.

And the final update was that Simon had been adopted.

Larry wrote about some other dogs too: (The first one is Simon again).

*****1) Extremely aggressive black lab, shelter dog had a bite record. Scheduled to be euthanized and I had four days that I was going to use as a learning tool for me. His turn-around was so impressive that he was given a reprieve by the shelter for some more work. Two months after coming in, he's been adopted out to a couple. Those that had met him prior to me working with him actually accused me of switching dogs, just 10 days after we started. The shelter director has since asked that I work with her on the proper uses of the collar.

*****2) Nice, high energy border collie that was having a hard time getting adopted because of fear issues. I had him for a few weeks and did collar work. Adopted out, his family was impressed with his confidence.

*****3) 5-1/2 month old puppy that was found at 10 wks under an abandoned car with his litter. Had been biting, growling, lunging and snapping at all approachers. We've only had one session and he's improved dramatically, enough that the volunteers can easily approach him and walk him. He'll have more sessions, but I'm confident that he'll be adoptable shortly.

*****4) 2-1/2 yr. old mutt that has extreme fear issues (urinating, decoupling, etc.) whenever anyone outside the family approaches. One session so far and the owners claim that the change is dramatic. We'll have more sessions, but the foundation is great so far.