I am now so confused.
I have now met 3 trainers. One is too far and is just competitive, one was a luck, I called and he was coming in my area and the person that was recommended by Pierre Lafond.

First one say both my boys could do it. Second was all about Dexter, third one was clear Harley could be a top dog and forget about Dexter he is just a good pet.

So WHAT MAKES A GOOD DOG for bite sport?

I can give more detail explaination from all 3 persons if wanted.

So WHAT MAKES A GOOD DOG for bite sport? end quote

Genetics, handling, and a good TD/decoy that'll work the dog at it's own pace.

 Quote:

... titles are limited to purebreds ...

Consider yourself corrected.

All breeds and mixes can be shown and titled under the United Schutzhund Clubs of America. About the only restriction is that the fall championship is for German Shepherds only. That's USCA's version of the Bundesieger and a qualifier for the world championships (WUSV). Other clubs under the AWDF ( http://www.awdf.net/ )umbrella probably have similar requirements and limits.

Titles include, of course, the Schutzhund titles, and

• Tracking
  
• Obedience
  
• Herding
  
• Rettigshund (Disaster Search certification)
  
• Area Search (I'm not even going to try and spell that one)
  

However, it's not likely that you will find the working qualities you need to do all three phases in a Lab mix. Nearly all dog can do the A & B phases (tracking and obedience). The mental qualities needed to do the C phase are more rare and easily lost -- witness the AKC version of the German Shepherd.

Although Schutzhund is an activity many people and varieties dogs participate in, it was created a a breed qualification test for German Shepherds. Other working breeds like Mal's have similar tests. So, yeah, the titles are important to a lot of German Shepherd people. When done as intended, they give you a lot of insight into the dog's character.

Doing Schutzhund is not so much of a activity as it is a lifestyle. When I got started, someone told me that I'd probably wind up dropping some other hobbies. I laughed. However, the 60 mile bike rides went away, skiing slid off the agenda, flying crashed and golf is nine holes in the old Monday night work league. And, as I walk the course, I keep thinking what a great tracking area this would be.

The other function of titles are to provide a goal and recognition of your efforts. Many people progress better if there is a goal. I've watched the 'I just wanna train' people. They soon lose interest and disappear.

One other thing to bear in mind is that doing Schutzhund is expensive.

It's not unusual for club members to have to drive over an hour each way. Figuring most cars will burn about 3 gal /hr, that's $20-25 just in gas. Many clubs train twice a week. So, you can double that number.

Clubs generally have dues ranging from $2-500 depending on their expenses. Organization memberships are another expense -- USA is $100/year. However, until April 30, USA membership is kind of free -- several dog equipment vendors are donating gear and gift certificates to cover that first year's dues.

There are also incidental expenses like meals -- at many clubs folks will kick in dishes or money for lunch or dinner at training.

Health tests for the dog are another overlooked expense. You want to make certain the dog's hips, elbows and spine are sound enough to handle the running and jumping required in phases B & C.

Good luck in finding a fit your you and your dog. In any case, keep training -- it has great rewards for you both. I remember that feeling of quiet satisfaction when I heard some neighborhood mother's were holding up Chance & Dallas as examples of how to mind and behave.

So then there is some personal preferences in the TD/DECOY. For such extrem statement as one dog is crap for one and is your next champion for the other guy. They must have a preferences for some type of personality or caracter in the dog that makes it work for them.

The dog does not change so much in 3 weeks.

I have one favorit, the BF has a favorit too. We are good it is not the same dog.

I stand humbly corrected.

Thank you Charlie!
As is most everyone else following this thread, I'm better educated thanks to you.

 Quote: ariane gauthier

So WHAT MAKES A GOOD DOG for bite sport?

Just as an FYI, we call them "protection sports", which has less negativity attached to it.

 Quote: randy allen

So the club in general is biased toward 'pure' breeds.

Then I'd seek out a club that a pedigree was of lesser importance.
Ahem, dare I suggest the ring?

I know a particular club that let my other half and his English Pointer join, solely for the tracking. (Thanks, Aaron!!!! lol)




Charlie- what a GREAT post, Thanks!!!!!!!

 Quote: Kelly Byrd

Charlie- what a GREAT post, Thanks!!!!!!!

Totally agree and what an interesting link. Not knowing the terminology it’s hard to find this kind of information.

Probably a totally stupid question but I’m a little confused with the flow of these organizations. This is the American Working Dog Federation. Does this Federation include the USCA Schutzhund Trials or does the AWDF fall under their umbrella? Or are they two totally different organizations?

And interesting with the 2011 Championship winners. It appears that both 2nd and 3rd place winners had a score of 282. How would they have determined who got 2nd and who got 3rd or would there be another deciding factor other than the scores?

Those judges appear to have very comprehensive backgrounds. You would have to be very good to compete at those levels.

Again, great link and excellent information. Thank you for sharing.

Tracking and a BH, since the BH is prereq to any other work. We wouldn't typically take on a member that wasn't interested in the protection phase, but it's different when it's a second dog in a family membership that has a dog pursuing full Schutzhund titles.

But yes, Schutzhund is open to all breeds, and ultimately, all ability levels.

Whether a CLUB will allow any breed and any ability level, is another story.

Many training directors are actively training their own dogs for competition, and there are other people who want to compete at higher levels in the club, as well.

Right or wrong, they don't wish to sacrifice training time to dogs that aren't going to succeed in the sport, and they screen out dogs they personally feel aren't suited.

 Quote:

... AWDF questions ...

AWDF is an association of working dog groups. The sports analogy would be like the NCAA. The member dog clubs would be like the Big 10, Pac-10, Big-12 conferences.

USCA is a member of that organization as are USRC (Rottweilers), AWMA (Mal's), DVG and others. The member clubs sanction and hold their own trials and championships. The GSDCA/WDA group is not an AWDF member.

The various AWDF member organizations now use a common scorebook. However, each club still maintains it's own scoring database. That is, you get a scorebook from USCA and it comes back as an AWDF book with a USCA stamp.

AWDF is recognized by the FCI, an international dog sport sanctioning organization

AWDF does have a very active all-breed working dog championship. The winners of that can go on to represent the USA in the world FCI championships.

When there is a tie score in a championship, the tie-breaker for placing are the respective scores in protection, obedience and tracking (in that order). So, if the total score was 290 and one dog had 98 in protection and the other a 97, the first dog would be placed higher. If they both had a 98, then we use the obedience scores to separate the placing.

USCA and others require their judges to be active in training and in the breed. GSCDCA (AKC) seems to have no such requirement. When they were flirting with that WDS (Working Dog Sport) program, they attempted to sanction performance judges by having them watch a Power Point presentation.

Not too long ago, I saw a post on another board where they looked at the resume's of the judges at a German Shepherd specialty show. None of their judges had any association with GSD's. One raised Yorkies. The others also raised various non-working breeds.

It's important to have judges that know and understand the breed. If you look at the resumes of the USCA judges you will find them all have been very active in trialing and often in breeding over the years.

One of the most respected judges and koermeisters in Germany is Wilfred Scheld. I've been told that the working people flock to any show and breed survey he does in Germany.

We had the good fortune to have him do a conformation show at our club a few years back. He has the uncanny ability to look at a pedigree and give a very accurate call on the dog's characteristics.

He's very active in herding -- at that time he was president of the FCI Herding Commission. I had some of the old Leerburg herding tapes for a German herding championship in the early 1990's. We turned off the sound track and he narrated the whole tape. As he recalls, that was the year the 'sheep were crazy'.

His uncle Alfred bred and owned Grief zum Lahntal, once ranked at the fourth most influential stud in the breed. He told several interesting stories about the dog. Alfred also bred Sagus vom Busecker Schloss and Natan vom Busecker Schloss
( http://leerburg.com/natan.htm ). He also very clearly recalled Natan. One of those people, that if you ever get the chance, you sit, listen and learn.