Re: Beginner making some progress
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#359459 - 04/25/2012 04:49 PM |
Moderator
Reg: 06-14-2002
Posts: 7417
Loc: St. Louis Mo
Offline |
|
If your trying to slow her down on the track then add a lot of serpentine tracks. I don't believe in going back over a track. It teaches the dog that it can.
As to ob with the prong. Try marker training. You'll never have to worry about bringing the drive back up!
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
Top
|
Re: Beginner making some progress
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#359462 - 04/25/2012 05:00 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 04-29-2004
Posts: 3825
Loc: Northeast
Offline |
|
Basically dogs should be neutral to collars or at the least not feel negatively toward them.
What has happened during OB..freequent corrections needed, improper use or something else that has cause her to feel this way? Is she a very soft dog or reactive dog?
If negative feelings have been created...giving lots of a 'special' treat when the collar come out & is placed on goes along way to counter this reaction. That special treat is given ONLY when the prong collar goes on with lots of praise. I would do this in the house on & off numerous times a day. Then over time put it on when it is walk time & then when tracking...but connecting the leash to another collar until the dog is comfortable again with the prong collar before attaching a leash to it.
MY DOGS...MY RULES
|
Top
|
Re: Beginner making some progress
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#359488 - 04/25/2012 11:34 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 09-23-2011
Posts: 2692
Loc: Marrero, LA
Offline |
|
She's not uncomfortable with the prong; she just doesn't get as excited about it since we started working more. She knows the difference between walking in the neighborhood and going to the field to do OB, and one is more fun than the other. Training is fun for her, but not as much fun as the leisurely walk when she's gonna get released to self-gratify on the smells and distractions.
There haven't been any negative experiences with corrections... she gets minimal corrections in OB, AND she gets them around the house, too, so there's no difference in that regard. She's neither soft nor hard, but she's very reactive; the corrections do exactly what they're supposed to, and she rebounds immediately with no avoidance. She sometimes looks at me like "C'mon, is that all you got?".
Neutral is the direction we're headed, downward from the unmitigated joy that I was used to getting, and I don't want neutral. I like it when she goes up in drive for the prong; that tells me that she wants to do whatever I want to do.
I've already implemented my own plan for restoring the upbeat reaction. I take her on the fun walks more often, and avoid using it when there's no need for it, such as the learning phase of a behavior, or if one of us is having an off-day. That is precisely why I don't want to start using it in this beginning phase of tracking. From what I've seen and read, there are as many techniques for correcting speed-tracking as there are trainers. I want to explore some of them instead of just defaulting to the prong. I may end up on the prong after I've tried some others.
I know that I could whip her into BH shape quickly with an ecollar, and I would love to have one to sharpen our long-distance recalls when she's getting her off-leash run in the field. However, every time I get the impulse to purchase one, I talk myself out of it because I think I might default to it anytime I get frustrated. I tell myself there might be a better way, and I start typing.
Sadie |
Top
|
Re: Beginner making some progress
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#359490 - 04/25/2012 11:49 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 09-23-2011
Posts: 2692
Loc: Marrero, LA
Offline |
|
Try marker training. You'll never have to worry about bringing the drive back up!
Thanks for the reply, Bob. I've been doing positive, reward-based verbal marker training since the '70s, and that's how I teach OB; the prong is there for correcting when behaviors have already been learned and proofed. The only issue is that Sadie prefers self-gratification over obedience. She gets off on being a stubborn bitch. With the prong, she knows she won't get away with it. I wish I was the one who raised her.
Sadie |
Top
|
Re: Beginner making some progress
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#359494 - 04/26/2012 07:01 AM |
Webboard User
Reg: 09-23-2011
Posts: 2692
Loc: Marrero, LA
Offline |
|
Thanks for everyone's help, ESPECIALLY would like to recognize ANNE. We did a very short, straight track this a.m. I fed her and worked her a little earlier, which stemmed her food drive a little. I calmed her with a little heeling and opieds, then made sure she was calm before approaching the pad. She spent about ten seconds there, then tracked slowly and methodically. She didn't pull at all, and I was able to walk upright with slack on the leash. She skipped three baits near the end (possibly because she saw the flag). I left them there, so I'll probably have stray dogs or cts in my yard teasing her through the fence while I'm at work. Only after we were away from the track did we do a huge praise and reward party with some chicken jerky.
You talk about one proud Daddy!
Sadie |
Top
|
Re: Beginner making some progress
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#359545 - 04/26/2012 03:42 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 04-29-2004
Posts: 3825
Loc: Northeast
Offline |
|
Great job. Glad to hear that what I suggested has helped. Much nicer to not have a freight train on a track. Keep up the good work. Good to have rewarded away from the track at the end. Nice job.
Stay slow & don't rush her. Keep her on these short tracks for a bit then start to lengthen them a few steps at a time. If she starts to rush the longer ones...take a step back & shorten the tracks. Some dogs start to speed up more the longer the track is.
Some other suggestons.
I would use a flag to mark the begining but avoid doing it at the end becasue that will keep her from rushing to the end when she sees the flag. Use a small stick that you find nearby or some other natural item a nut whatever & place a couple of feet before the end so you know where it is. Use something different all the time if you have a smart dog. You need to have a good idea where the track ends too so you can keep her in check. I would use another stick or whatever to mark the begining. I tracked in a big field but would rotate my tracks around the field & knew about where I was going to start a new track. Would often line the start up with some tree etc on the perimeriter of the field.
I would make her sit at the start for a bit longer each time so she learns to settle herself a bit more each time. She needs to know that she will be started to track when YOU are ready to start or she will learn that if I sit for a few seconds I can start. She will learn to calm herself relax & not anticipating.
I had times that I would just walk away from the track when my female was being nutty. She loved to track & I would not let her start until she was very calm or it trasnfered to the track & she would be to quick & blow turns etc. So she learned instead to just sit still quietly & just quiver. LOL But she'd track slowly. Life is full of tradeoffs. :-)
Also track in different areas, if you can, so she doesn't associate the tracking with a certain place & get all ampped up before you even head over to the spot. I used to also run my dogs on the field....so it was associated with more then just tracking.
When starting tracking don't track over old tracks unless the are a week old.(if you have a really good tracker) You can eventually cross over those tracks when she has more experience & she will learn to stay on the hot track.
MY DOGS...MY RULES
|
Top
|
Re: Beginner making some progress
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#359548 - 04/26/2012 04:06 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 09-23-2011
Posts: 2692
Loc: Marrero, LA
Offline |
|
Thanks, Anne. I knew that I should set up tracks in a different area each time. Thankfully we have multiple huge fields for when the club meets. The short track in the a.m. before work is a little harder to manage since we are at home, but I've found a different spot each of the last eight days, so it's doable. The one week timeframe is pretty forgiving for 20' tracks. Alleys between houses, etc.
Great suggestion for replacing the end flag. Know that quivering thing all too well.
I'm sooo glad I decided to heed your suggestions; it paid off on the first attempt.
Sadie |
Top
|
Re: Beginner making some progress
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#359552 - 04/26/2012 05:07 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 04-29-2004
Posts: 3825
Loc: Northeast
Offline |
|
Glad that I could help. Anytime. You know how to find me.
Keep it going. Keep it moving forward slowly. (That's the hard part when you see they get it) She'll do fine. Just takes time like anything else.
Like anything else...if you skip steps you pay the price later in having to go back & fix it. Best to get it as close to perfect as possible in the begining & save yourself the heartache later.
Keep us posted on her progress.
MY DOGS...MY RULES
|
Top
|
Re: Beginner making some progress
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#359687 - 04/29/2012 12:32 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 09-23-2011
Posts: 2692
Loc: Marrero, LA
Offline |
|
Tracked with the club Sat and Sun after a week of working on fundamentals and correcting some stuff. Sadie's nailing everything and working more methodically, so the Prez and Sgt-At-Arms had me throw a couple of new challenges at her; she surely and methodically worked them out, and I was told she was ready to open it up a little. I am very proud of my girl. She has earned a whole day of napping on the cool tile in the AC!
Sadie |
Top
|
Re: Beginner making some progress
[Re: Duane Hull ]
#359708 - 04/29/2012 07:21 PM |
Webboard User
Reg: 04-29-2004
Posts: 3825
Loc: Northeast
Offline |
|
Glad she's working better.
MY DOGS...MY RULES
|
Top
|
When purchasing any product from Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. it is understood
that any and all products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. are sold in Dunn
County Wisconsin, USA. Any and all legal action taken against Leerburg Enterprises,
Inc. concerning the purchase or use of these products must take place in Dunn
County, Wisconsin. If customers do not agree with this policy they should not
purchase Leerburg Ent. Inc. products.
Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not use any of the products
sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. without consulting a local professional.
The training methods shown in the Leerburg Ent. Inc. DVD’s are meant
to be used with a local instructor or trainer. Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot
be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals.
Copyright 2010 Leerburg® Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. All photos and content on leerburg.com are part of a registered copyright owned by Leerburg Enterprise, Inc.
By accessing any information within Leerburg.com, you agree to abide by the
Leerburg.com Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.