In my area a dog with proof of obedience training(no title required) is allowed off leash for the purpose of training.

We can have a good old time and occasionally mix in an obedience command to still be in compliance with the law. Tanner isn't quite ready for off-leash but a long line isn't in compliance with the leash law so we're pretty much already using that ordinance. I keep a copy of it tucked into my treat bag.

Our local leash law limits the leash length to 6 feet. Technically outlaws Flexi leads. I'd LOVE to see that enforced.

I think John raises some thoughtful points. But I don't think that because something is popular is necessarily an indication of it being a good idea.

People have kept dogs in cities and suburbs for a long time before the proliferation of these off-leash dog parks--which seem like a phenomenon of the last decade or so.

Urban dogs have always been walked or jogged with for exercise, and urban parks are great places to hike with leashed dogs. I live in a city, 3 blocks from a large urban park, and that's where my pack goes for a several-mile hike. In my neighborhood there are also at least 3 of these "dog parks" and I never see the dogs doing anything in there. The owners sit on benches, not interacting with their own dog. Maybe the ones near me are just bad dog parks.

Of the ones I've seen, off-leash dog parks seem like a way to minimize the effort of keeping a dog while feeling like you've actually done something, however well-intentioned. I do think most owners go to dog parks with the best of intentions---they mistakenly think their dogs want or need this social interaction, when what I think most dogs want is more interaction with THEIR human.

I can't help but think these dog parks are an expression of the "fur baby" mentality that anthropomorphizes dogs into children that need "play dates."

Being a one dog owner, I tend to agree with you Tracy.

But I have a question: You have a good size pack. How much do they enjoy each others company?

 Quote: Carol Blumlein

But I have a question: You have a good size pack. How much do they enjoy each others company?

They seem to enjoy each other just fine. But I don't really give them much choice in the matter. I alone get to decide who our family members are. Not the dogs.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

They seem to enjoy each other just fine. But I don't really give them much choice in the matter. I alone get to decide who our family members are. Not the dogs.

I guess I just meant, would they miss each others company?

 Quote: Cathy Goessman

 Quote: John Vanek

2)Most people have NEVER had a negative experience at a dog park. I know MANY people who have taken their dogs DAILY for YEARS with no problems.

6)Most people don't understand dog body language.

Those two statements are not compatible. I've seen people who think their dog has a "best friend" where their dog is really just the bullies favorite target.

BINGO, Cathy, unfortunately -- And the jerks who own those dominineering dogs are laughing about how "friendly" their spoiled beasts are ... Meanwhile, the poor dogs who are BEING BULLIED into Abject Submission are typically BEGGING their clueless owners for HELP, which all goes right over the ignoramus'es heads >=(

Connie, I'm not sure how to solve the issue. I like to think I'm good at coming at a problem from all angles, and seeing both sides. However, coming up with solutions isn't my forte

I think that people on this forum also come at the issue from the type of dogs we keep: typically dominant, almost all high drive, possibly sharp, most with fight drive to some extent. Most pet dogs are not like this, most pet dogs are goofy labs with low to zero fight drive. Are all like this? No, certainly not, but many are. I would say the majority are, at least in my area.

I've been to dog parks a fair amount. I rarely actually go in, only when I've scouted the area for some time, make sure there are no bullies or asshole owners, and usually when there are a few dogs. Mostly, however, we work on obedience, counter-conditioning, or re-activity at various distances from the fence. From these experiences, I've seen a lot of dog interactions, and I've seen maybe 1 fight.

The worst dog fight I saw was when I was working with Conservation Canines, and a little lab mix STARTED a fight with Gabby, a pit. Gabby would have finished it if we weren't there, despite the 8 other dogs ganging up on her. She would NOT let go of that annoying little lab mix, and I don't blame her. I've never seen anything close to this at a dog park, but it is one of the reasons I don't want to tempt fate.

 Quote: Cathy Goessman

 Quote: John Vanek

2)Most people have NEVER had a negative experience at a dog park. I know MANY people who have taken their dogs DAILY for YEARS with no problems.

6)Most people don't understand dog body language.

Those two statements are not compatible. I've seen people who think their dog has a "best friend" where their dog is really just the bullies favorite target.

Oh, I agree 100%. I often point out to my girlfriend which dogs are miserable and which are bullies, both of which mostly go unnoticed to the owners.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

I don't think that because something is popular is necessarily an indication of it being a good idea.

I agree.

 Quote:

People have kept dogs in cities and suburbs for a long time before the proliferation of these off-leash dog parks--which seem like a phenomenon of the last decade or so.


Urban dogs have always been walked or jogged with for exercise, and urban parks are great places to hike with leashed dogs. I live in a city, 3 blocks from a large urban park, and that's where my pack goes for a several-mile hike. In my neighborhood there are also at least 3 of these "dog parks" and I never see the dogs doing anything in there. The owners sit on benches, not interacting with their own dog. Maybe the ones near me are just bad dog parks.

You are lucky. Not all people live in such close proximity. In addition, while I live in the suburbs and have the benefit of a small yard (good for tug, not so good for tiring fetch), ALL of the STATE PARKS in my area BAN dogs, even LEASHED dogs. Incredible, but true.



Here is an example of why people LOVE these places:

(from the facebook group "Australian Cattle Dogs")

"For the most part, Bentley is pretty good for a 6 month pup. However, there are some days he is a holy terror and today is one of those days. We're off to see how many miles of walking it takes to get him manageable again. (I think the other dogs put him up to it just to get an extra walk in.)"

(followed by)

"Success!!! Only 2 miles and 45 minutes at the dog park to remove the holy terror and bring back my sweet boy."

 Quote: Carol Blumlein

 Quote: Tracy Collins

They seem to enjoy each other just fine. But I don't really give them much choice in the matter. I alone get to decide who our family members are. Not the dogs.

I guess I just meant, would they miss each others company?

We recently had a pack member die--and I was surprised at just how adaptable the rest of the pack was with this change. I cannot say that they "missed" (as in pined for) the lost member. But then again, there were still four dogs in the house. I sorta saw it as my job to continue the routines that the other dogs know--and at our house, that includes living with other dogs. Same thing with a new pack member added 4 days ago. Of course the others note the new addition. But it's been surprisingly easy to integrate a new member into a stable pack.

So...would my dogs (who are used to being part of a pack) "miss" the company of other pack-member dogs? Maybe. But not for long. I think having a clear human leader is by far more important than how many other dogs are in the pack.

" I think having a clear human leader is by far more important than how many other dogs are in the pack. "


So do I.

Also, FWIW, I make sure that I'm the main source of games, training, rewards, food, security, and fun. That's how I want it. I don't even want my dogs to rely on the other pack members for important aspects of their lives.

I admit that this puts a lot on me, but it's how I think it should be -- and I lead a pretty dog-centric
life.

I am VERY glad to hear that, since I only have one!!